Does Pike's Enterprise have a turbolift funhouse?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by PicardSpeedo, May 14, 2022.

  1. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yet the beams in Trek have never ever acted in a realistic manner. Why not just sweep a beam across and wipe everyone out? Instead they just fire shots which are too stable for any hand-held beam weapon. Try holding a laser pointer still and see what I mean.
     
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  2. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Commodore Commodore

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    Welcome to the last thing Shinzon's viceroy saw in NEM before going splat.
     
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  3. Yistaan

    Yistaan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They don't even need to manually sweep the beam, wide beam settings were established as early as TOS and then forgotten mostly: star trek - Why is the wide beam phaser setting not used very often? - Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange
     
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  4. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sure. It doesnt have to all be explained. So we should not have been shown the innards of the turbolift shafts if they could not do it in a believable in universe way. But they had to have a 5 minute fight similar to Spock and Khan in Into Darkness. So they decided to make a turbolift shafts system the size of 10 city blocks....
     
  5. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They likely could have made it plausible if they'd wanted. Hollow out the ship, have it zip by recognisable rooms and supporting superstructure, a fall of 50 feet will kill you just as well as 1000 feet. I guess someone decided that wasn't sufficient, or was unaware of the scale of the ship.

    It didn't bother me, but I laughed at first which likely wasn't what they wanted since I'm so hardcore knowledgeable about this stuff. I'd love to hear from the director.
     
  6. Imaus

    Imaus Captain Captain

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    Yes, indeed. How the delta flyer fit in Voy was long a topic of contention! Especially since they had a aeroflyer they never used...
     
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  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So?

    I'm good with it. Dramatic license. No explanation required.
     
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  8. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well the Delta Flyer originally was not intended to have the rear section..Correct?? When they showed it being built and people standing around it, it looked like it could indeed fit a rear section. But of course the engines were probably all external.
    I'm sure there was a but of rescaling done when they decided to have the rear section. But it still worked in a believable way.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
  9. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Had Voyager carried on they'd have done an episode where the Delta Flyer is stranded in space, Harry needs a particular wrench to do some repairs and Tom is just like, "they sell those down in the mall" and it's at the other end of that Jeffries tube.
     
  10. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm very forgiving for them using the Jeffries-tube on the Delta-Flyer: The script probably just said they were crawling inside the engine of the Flyer (which absolutely should be a thing), but they only had that one set, so they used it instead of building a new one. You can kind of rationalize it that it's the part that connects sideways to the tip of the wings (the space would be there).

    What I'm less forgiving is that whole back-room as well as the escape pod. There should be a backroom. But the shape of the room didn't really fit. The runabouts had it easier - they were square shaped, so the backroom was also square. The Delta Flyer should have had a triangular backroom, with a clear, angled sidewall. Not a lofty room.

    Also - They should have used the Aeroshuttle instead. But also also I never really cared about it fitting in the aft shuttlebay or not - Star Trek ship sizes are notoriously unreliable, and it "felt" like it could fit. The aft of the Voyager is definitely big enough. The only critical point is that the "garage door" is so small.
     
  11. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/delta-size.htm

    It wasnt perfect but again it's still much more believable than the turbolift of horror
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Just like others are very forgiving of Voyager or TOS set inaccuracies I am equally forgiving of new Trek.

    The standard is the same.
     
  13. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Captain Captain

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    They do, but in TNG and most of TOS they fire beams. In TOS they tend to fire stun or vaporize exclusively, with no mid-power kill. Season 1 of DIS plays to that nicely where everyone gets killed is vaporized. For some reason they stop in season 2. There is at least one instance of pulses fired in TOS, but they're more like brief beams fired in an alternating spray. Actual wide beam is a little iffy, but at one instance of stun looks like an area effect.
    Realistic is not as important as consistent for a fantastic setting, because phasers could act like ballistic weapons (supersonic projectiles following parabolas) one episode, and lasers (invisible instantaneous beams) the next, and in both cases they would be realistic, but horribly inconsistent.

    Beam sweeping happens twice, accidentally. The angle of the beam is determined by where the user is looking, the beam locks at that angle relative the weapon while firing so it doesn't sweep around if the eyes move, but the hand can move the beam by pointing the phaser around. Twice, people's arms are knocked while firing phasers, and the beams sweep. One times it's Romulan programmed killer Geordi, another in, I think, DS9.

    The reason they don't do sweeping in combat is likely safety training. As in, better to fire and cleanly miss than fire and accidentally hit anything unintended. It's more idealized cop than soldier, and I think it fits the idea of pacifist soldiers nicely.
     
  14. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually no, it's a case-by-case thing.
    The Delta Flyer would fit, it's just a few dodgy vfx shots that are way off. The extreme JJprise size has the right size in all vfx shots, but is hella' goofy in general.

    To give counter examples: I am not forgiving that whole "Defiant"-size thing, because that's equally ridiculously not-thought-out, but I am forgiving of the size-issues of the SNW sets, because those don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

    So it's not "new Trek" vs. "old Trek". It's "inconsistencies" vs. "full-blown madness".

    And the turbolit funhouse is probably the greates shit-show any Trek has ever pulled off in that regard ever.
     
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  15. Dar70

    Dar70 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You could not be more wrong I think.. You are giving way to much leeway/excuses to new trek imo. I have said multiple times on these threads that YES all trek has continuity errors/visual errors etc. But none on the scale that DISCO and SNW has had. Dragging out minor inconsistencies with the Delta Flyer to somehow justify the awful turbolift interior is poor at best.
    Again I dont think all new trek is bad but they most certainly have not tried hard enough to fit with what came before.....I think most people would agree...
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    New Trek is in line with visual inconsistencies as before.

    This is my Trek experience, wrong though it might be. But, I stand by it that if I can make peace with moving from Where No One Has Gone Before, to TOS, to TMP to TWOK without any explanation (or bare lip service) to changes then I sure can handle Discovery, SNW and everything else.

    The difference for me is that I am not going out hunting for these inconsistencies. I am looking at being entertained.
    Well, when Trek hits full blown madness I will no doubt be offended and deeply so.

    So far, it hasn't.

    Mileage will vary. Largely because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2022
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  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So the story goes (which may or may not be true, false or a result of various fans playing telephone) the turbolift funhouse came from Kurtzman's "Fix Canon" initiative of Disco season 2, specifically he wanted to address why Disco is twice the size of a Constitution class ship but only has a fraction of the crew. The solution, the ship has a hollow interior in which the turbolift roller coaster can fit and all the habitable areas are along the perimeter. Of course, the Q&A Short Trek then completely negates that explanation by showing the Enterprise also has its own funhouse anyway.
     
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  18. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sure it’s silly. But it doesn’t ruin my enjoyment of the series one iota. It’s an entertainment franchise and there are plenty of silly things in Star Trek. Never stopped my enjoyment of it before.

    If one must cal me “willfully ignorant” for feeling this way, so be it. I could suggest that those individuals have too much time on their hands to worry so much about something ultimately so trivial.
     
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  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly.
     
  20. plynch

    plynch Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It didn’t ruin anything for me either. It’s just so odd.

    And if it was that Disco is hollow — why in teh world conceive a ship like that? In or out of universe?

    My hunch is some vfx ppl thought it’d be kewl.