Does it get better?

[Vger23]

^ at the same time, real people would not talk like what we think of as like real people today. It’s the distant future. I like some of the formality they use — it’s a placeholder for the future-speak they’d likely use. When they do talk like real people circa today, I’m usually taken out of the narrative knowing they’re doing this to make the alien-ness of the future more “relatable.” Uh-huh. Okay

I agree with that (honestly), but when the goal is to entertain and not to promote realism (which I have always taken as Trek's primary purpose)...I think the pattern and style of dialogue there falls down and lands very flat.

But I absolutely understand your point.

 

[Arpy]

Yeah, it’s just that I’m not entertained, ya know? I don’t like silly dialogue like when they do three pages of opaque technobabble followed by “you mean we’re going a window to let some air in...” to explain to us dunderheads what we couldn’t possibly figure out, but I also prefer something else than colloquial speak that sounds anachronistic for the setting. I guess we’re talking two different things — both technobabble and slang and whatnot —. But I like it when the language is as challenging as the visuals.

 

[Lance]

I haven’t thought about the early writers/producers much. It was a revolving door of them I know, but even if I looked them up, I couldn’t tell you their “style.” It’s interesting to me to read your impression of Hurley as it gives me a sense of his influence to put to just the name.

And it’s interesting to break down the series by overarching styles.

If Piller was season 3 on, and Hurley 2, who was season 1, and how would you describe his style? How would you describe Piller’s over his seasons?

I really dig Hurley's style in Season 2. There's a degree of real danger and mystery in his conception of the series which was sadly lost when he left. Even episodes like The Royale, I just dig the vibe. It's a bit of that original series style. Space is vast, dangerous and there are going to be weird things out there that defy our expectations

As to your question, season 1 is essentially half Roddenberry, half Hurley. "Hide & Q" is the episode where Hurley officially takes over and he rewrote Roddenberry's own story in the process (it was the last piece of Star Trek that Star Trek's creator ever wrote). The second half of the season, with episodes like 01001001, Arsenal of Freedom, Skin of Evil, We'll Always Have Paris and Conspiracy all definitely show Maurice Hurley's style, and are distinctly different than where the season began.

 

[gakelly]

There definitely is that awesome feel to season 2. It almost feels like you should watch these episodes at 1 a.m.
While I didn't like some of the scripts (Time Squared, The Royale, The Schizoid Man, etc.), there is just that feel about how vast space is and how dangerous it is for mankind.

With LaForge in engineering, the show seems much better.
Pulaski seemed to bring out the feel in that season too. Her personality was grating and I think that brought a lot to the show. When Crusher returned, the only real conflict with the characters seemed to disappear.

The later season shows didn't seem like the ship was out exploring, but more running errands, transporting ambassadors, meeting up with Romulans or Klingons, etc., while season 2 seemed like the ship was on the edge of the known universe and anything could be out their waiting.

 

[Mojochi]

The later season shows didn't seem like the ship was out exploring, but more running errands, transporting ambassadors, meeting up with Romulans or Klingons, etc., while season 2 seemed like the ship was on the edge of the known universe and anything could be out their waiting.

I'll grant you that season 3, by and LARGE, has a ship running errands feel to it, but the last half of season 4 is LOADED with the "wonders of the unknown" going on, from Clues straight thru to The Nth Degree. The difference between it & the feel they had in season 2 is that now we really know our crew, & all the stories reflect a more character driven nature. All the unknown new & exciting adventures that develop are somehow linked to someone in the cast. The show became more character based, & I honestly think that not only isn't that a bad thing... it couldn't have not happened. We were always going to get ourselves feeling at home on this ship, because by the time season 4 had come around, Star Trek the tv show was in unchartered territory itself, as its predecessor had been canceled by then.

So throughout the remaining seasons, there's this fine line they have to walk of giving us space exploration, but doing it through characters we had really lived with a while, in a universe that we had been living in for decades. I still gripe that there wasn't enough established aliens on the show, like Vulcans or Andorians etc... There was an element of the fan base that wanted to have the known Star Trek universe spelled out in the show more too. That's a tough line to walk, unlike a show that wasn't a legacy might have. The universe was always going to feel like it had shrunk, just like the lockers in my old high school don't look as tall anymore

 

[Qonundrum]

I haven’t thought about the early writers/producers much. It was a revolving door of them I know, but even if I looked them up, I couldn’t tell you their “style.” It’s interesting to me to read your impression of Hurley as it gives me a sense of his influence to put to just the name.

And it’s interesting to break down the series by overarching styles.

If Piller was season 3 on, and Hurley 2, who was season 1, and how would you describe his style? How would you describe Piller’s over his seasons?

Piller - definitely interesting. His era starts out with a more polished adventure/action theme show with character development - so to speak, it's a best of both worlds (not meant as a pun or title drop, and note I prefer part two - which is a clever role reversal that was written at last minute because Piller wasn't originally going to stay).

But as the years went on, the show under his name would become almost solely character driven and absconding the sense of adventure and exploring the unknown. Hence the jokes about "The Enterprise is now a glorified taxicab in space" and so on. Were the changes toward what can be equated to "soap opera in the cosmos" solely his? Not necessarily, and season 4's first foray into this realm just made it more a natural feel for the later years that followed since everything gelled. But season 3's uniqueness definitely would not be repeated. Though season 7 definitely feels like an attempt to recapture season 2's sense of mystery, strangeness, and danger after 2 years of "Contrived Preaching in Space". It doesn't always work but I still appreciate that final year's adventures rather a lot. I should give "Masks" another viewing...

But Season 1... Season 1 = Roddenberry. Especially the first half of the season.

TNG definitely was a revolving door early on, which on the plus side also meant numerous styles and visions for the show could be seen and allowing more "What ifs" for those visions that didn't quite work. But, in the earliest days, Roddenberry had the most control and as I recall reading had to be pried away from it, a bit at a time. The first half of season one definitely starts to feel different to the second half. Even "Angel One", which would have been worse than just a cliche had it been made just after, say, "Justice" - a story so oiled up the viewer gets HPV just by watching it...

 

[Armus]

I wonder how TNG's third season, and the subsequent years, would have turned out if Michael Wagner, Maurice Hurley's replacement, had stayed on. He wrote The Survivors, a unique alien- of -the -week mystery with a strong guest star. He apparently quit in tears when he realized he had to run everything by Roddenberry.

 

[StarLord]

So far like ds9 more than TNG

 

[Arpy]

Yeah, I watched “The Naked Now” recently and was amazed how sexual/ly suggestive it was. Still a thumbs down.

What episodes did you watch @StarLord ? What stands out from them for you pro and con?

 

[Defiler-Of-Redshirts]

It gets astronomically better; The Next Generation really blossomed with constant great episodes from seasons 3 to 6. The first two seasons are unwatchable garbage. You need to skip ahead a couple of seasons for the more delicious episodes. Completely different from the first two seasons.

 

[JesterFace]

The first two seasons are unwatchable garbage.

The first two seasons are weaker, but episodes like 'The Measure of a Man' and 'Q Who' are must watch episodes.

 

[Arpy]

My Top 5 of Each Season:

SEASON 1:

1. Where No One Has Gone Before
2. Hide and Q
3. 11001001
4. The Arsenal of Freedom
5. Conspiracy

SEASON 2:

1. A Matter of Honor
2. The Measure of a Man
3. Contagion
4. Q Who
5. The Emissary

 

[Armus]

There are plenty of watchable episodes in seasons 1 and 2.

Season 1 is the most like TOS, but with awesome music and much more polish and tasteful colors. It's probably my favorite era of TNG.

Season 2 is really when it became the TNG everyone everyone knew and loved. The introduction of Guinan and Ten- Forward helped make the show a bit more character oriented in season 2. Episodes like The Measure of A Man, Contagion, and The Emissary were templates for the rest of the series. Shades of Grey was the template of what to avoid!

 

[Herbert]

The later season shows didn't seem like the ship was out exploring, but more running errands, transporting ambassadors, meeting up with Romulans or Klingons, etc., while season 2 seemed like the ship was on the edge of the known universe and anything could be out their waiting.

Yup, and that's when the show was best. More exploring the edges of the unknown and less about Data creating an offspring, and Worf's human brother (who gives a f), and L'waxana's psychic trauma over her dead daughter or trying to keep Charles Emerson Winchester from committing suicide, and trying to humanize the Borg, and Beverly getting it on with a ghost.

The first two seasons are unwatchable garbage.

Complete bullshit. Every season has its clunkers and there are plenty in the seasons after 2. To completely dismiss two entire seasons of the show is goofy.

 

[Armus]

Yup, and that's when the show was best. More exploring the edges of the unknown and less about Data creating an offspring, and Worf's human brother (who gives a f), and L'waxana's psychic trauma over her dead daughter or trying to keep Charles Emerson Winchester from committing suicide, and trying to humanize the Borg, and Beverly getting it on with a ghost.

So you didn't care about Worf's struggles to be a good Klingon single parent in the 24th century?

 

[Herbert]

So you didn't care about Worf's struggles to be a good Klingon single parent in the 24th century?

I figured it would be too tedious to list all of my stinker episodes.

 

[worf1965]

Dismissing the first two seasons is just wrong. While I agree a beginner should start with Season 3 and watch from there. They should go back and watch Seasons 1 & 2 later. Even the slower or hokier episodes have value and contribute to the characters. If someone already likes TOS then maybe start with Season 1 because that would be a good transition from TOS to TNG. Otherwise, to someone starting out today, especially younger generations (like my teenage kids) the first 2 seasons can seem dated and boring.

 

[Herbert]

Dismissing the first two seasons is just wrong. While I agree a beginner should start with Season 3 and watch from there. They should go back and watch Seasons 1 & 2 later.

I say watch from the very beginning as was intended when the show started. That way you see the evolution of the characterization. Yeah, in the beginning the characters were a little strange at times but most shows are like that. The writing takes a while to figure out where it wants to go.

 

[SCE2Aux]

Another vote here for watching it all in order. I'm cuurrently goung through the first two seasons (which I've avoided for years) and having a blast. One of the best things about any show in its early years is that they try out different things and is less constrained by its own history. As uneven as it waa, there was a lot of vibrancy and humour in the early tng seasons.

And from a visual standpoint, there is the advantage of seeing that gorgeous six foot Enterprise D model every episode. Likewise the lighting is often more dynamic/less flat in the ship interiors, compared to later seasons.

 

[Armus]

Both TNG and DS9 should be watched in order as the show and characters slowly evolve each season. And there are too many gems you'd miss if you skip the first two seasons.

It truly baffles me when I hear people say to start watching in season 3. Season 3 begins with "Evolution", "The Ensigns of Command", and "The Bonding", which aren't exactly the most memorable episodes in TNG canon.