Does interesting/weird stuff happen on ships we never hear about?

[golddragon71]

Somehow I'd love to see that story animated.

I agree completely th whole series would work great as an animated series (especially after Star Trek IV when Arex and M'Ress rejoined the cast)

And am I the only one who after TNG came out, swore up and down about how Worf was actually the second Klingon in star fleet after Ensign Konom?

 

[Cyke101]

I quite like the idea of different crews out there battling their own sets of archenemies, mad scientists, and cosmic entities. It makes the Trek universe seem fuller and more realized, that on some level these threats are kind of normal and definitely part of the job description. After all, we've seen five crews have -- essentially -- the same adventures no matter where they were in the galaxy, so it stands to reason that other crews on less famous ships also do their fair share of adventuring.

Though, I'm less thrilled at the idea of those crews battle their own corrupt Starfleet admirals. "Didja hear what the USS Gettysburg did the other day? They foiled a coup d'etat on Earth!"

"Wait, that's the third coup d'etat this month. Was it a Changeling plot or a little buggy parasite?"

 

[JirinPanthosa]

You know how in Scientific Method, they fly into a star and Tuvok projects only a 1 in 16 chance of the ship surviving?

Well, that happened to 15 other ships, and none of them survived.

 

[The Wormhole]

Hmm, what about a Starfleet ship setting sent back to 20th century Earth, and then discovering five other Starfleet ships from various eras also there? How would that go?

First Officer: "Guess this must be a popular day."
Captain: "Prepare an away team, but make sure we don't get involved with whatever those other ships are doing."

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^"I think one of the other ships in orbit is a later version of this one, Captain."

"And it doesn't look that much different from ours, which means..."

"Oh, shit..."

--Sran

 

[Timo]

stop the Xindi superweapon, taking down Nero, or halting the Borg after Wolf 359 (can't really ignore those incidents)

Can't they? It's not as if mention of these feats would have been made by anybody, besides episodes and movies immediately adjoining the feats and involving the very same characters.

DS9 did return to the Wolf 359 thing, but there was no mention of the role of the Enterprise, like, ever. The only relevant thing was that Picard had been Locutus; it's as if Riker and the E-D were not involved at all.

Nobody really mentioned any specific heroics by Kirk when discussing that character, either. And when Admiral Janeway and Captain Picard spoke in ST:NEM, the former did refer to some of the exploits of the latter, but not vice versa, even though Janeway did much more regarding the Borg than Picard, and had adventures as colorful and significant overall.

It really seems Earth-protecting, Federation-saving or even universe-restoring exploits are a dime in a dozen in Starfleet, and it is only in exceptional circumstances that one might get special treatment thanks to those.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

it's as if Riker and the E-D were not involved at all

He and it weren't, they arrived after the battle of wolf 359.

 

[Timo]

That wasn't the original statement - it specifically dealt with what happened after Wolf 359, i.e. when Riker saved Earth by recovering Picard and subverting him back to the Federation cause. The heroes of DS9 are not concerned with any Earth-saving heroics, they merely grumble and bitch about Wolf 359.

What is rare and significant in Starfleet? Riker is a famous officer, and no mistake. But what is he famous for? Defeating the Borg? Flying to the end of the universe and back? Traveling in time? Humiliating the Cardassians? Saving the Earth? Nope - his womanizing (DS9 "Defiant")!

If womanizing is less common in Starfleet than saving Earth from a cyborg threat, we can but deduce that there are such threats at least thrice a month...

Also, let's return to that exchange between Picard and Admiral Janeway. She quotes three interesting adventures Picard has had: Son'a, Borg, and now the Romulans. It's as if Picard had no career whatsoever before the movies! IMHO this is further proof that Starfleet is so jam-packed with excitement that fifteen minutes of fame is good going and three epic adventures to your name is a minimum requirement for being remembered at all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vandervecken]

Well, that was the one big exception. And even then, the ship appeared to be Starfleet's last choice, there simply being no alternatives despite the fact that the ship's (and the hero's!) shortcomings nearly doomed the mission.

The other mission that might have seemed important from the outset already was the ST6:TUC escort (and that was symbolism, rather than indication that the Enterprise would be functionally important for Starfleet). But most of the movies and all of TOS just featured routine stuff going awry.

Timo Saloniemi

Journey to Babel
Is There in Truth No Beauty?
Elaan of Troyus
A Taste of Armageddon



That's actually a fair number of high-profile diplomatic missions--unless we consider Medusa (if that's a world), Ameniar, and Troyus all backwaters, and I don't think they were. I'm not sure why the Enterprise and not some other ship ends up as "bait" in the Alternative Factor.

I do like your comment in another post about Errand of Mercy--on the face of it, Kirk DID draw a sh_t detail (as did Kor), didn't he?

 

[Timo]

I don't see how the ferry missions would count as "high profile" - surely these diplomats don't sit idle the rest of the time? Kirk must be but one in a long row of skippers ordered to play taxi for the dignitaries. That stuff happens to the dignitaries on his watch may indicate that it happens to them all the time, or then it just means Kirk is a klutz with security arrangements.

As for "Alternative Factor", Kirk only gets to deal with the universe-jarring threat because he's right where it happened. Somebody important would be elsewhere doing important stuff! But yes, we're left wondering why the event, which was localized right next to Kirk even if felt everywhere, took place exactly when Kirk was there. Then again, it can be taken as another piece of evidence that Starfleet really is everywhere, and that stuff happens all the time... Sometimes to Kirk, sometimes to others.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vandervecken]

I don't see how the ferry missions would count as "high profile" - surely these diplomats don't sit idle the rest of the time? Kirk must be but one in a long row of skippers ordered to play taxi for the dignitaries. That stuff happens to the dignitaries on his watch may indicate that it happens to them all the time, or then it just means Kirk is a klutz with security arrangements.

As for "Alternative Factor", Kirk only gets to deal with the universe-jarring threat because he's right where it happened. Somebody important would be elsewhere doing important stuff! But yes, we're left wondering why the event, which was localized right next to Kirk even if felt everywhere, took place exactly when Kirk was there. Then again, it can be taken as another piece of evidence that Starfleet really is everywhere, and that stuff happens all the time... Sometimes to Kirk, sometimes to others.

Timo Saloniemi

I have to flat-out disagree on the Coridan question--that was a big one, tons of diplomats. I doubt something like that was given to just any captain. By the time this occurred in season 2, KIrk had Sherman's Planet under his belt and also stopping Tracey in The Omega Glory, and both must have counted bigtime with the Fedeation Council (but I am willing to bet that Starfleet was less thrilled in some echelons re Tracey).

But I also don't think stopping wars and making arranged marriages between rulers occur to stop wars is de rigeur even for diplomats. I mean most diplomacy isn't about trying to stop an immediately occurring flashpoint. When a Starfleet captain is assigned to something like that, I would say more is expected of him--if needed--than simply being a ferry, and probably in the Federation's experience something goes wrong more often than not. When diplomats aren't doing this stuff, they're probably sitting at desks and writing reports, just like Starfleet captains, or attending boring but sometimes lavish functions, or just schmoozing the locals to firm up ties (like ambassadors in the US State Dept). So I really don't think the Ameniar and Troyus situations were considered everyday events by the Federation (and thus Starfleet). I can see, though, that this could apply to Kollos--maybe, after all, that was just routine.

I would take your point of view for Commssioner Hedford, but even then only if we assume the Enterprise just happened to be around when she contracted Sakuro's disease and if they weren't her actual ride to Epsilon Canaris 3.

 

[Timo]

I have to flat-out disagree on the Coridan question--that was a big one, tons of diplomats. I doubt something like that was given to just any captain.

My point here is that it only happened to Kirk this one time. Yet it is likely to happen to those diplomats pretty much annually if not more often; given how agitated they all were over a commonplace-sounding incident, either their life is extremely dull overall, or then getting agitated over any given incident and rushing off to a conference to settle it out is what they exist for. So Kirk isn't doing a unique job, he's just doing a common job once.

By the time this occurred in season 2, Kirk had Sherman's Planet under his belt and also stopping Tracey in The Omega Glory, and both must have counted bigtime with the Federation Council

Significantly, Kirk was not sent to perform either of those jobs. He responded to an illegal emergency call in the first case, and stumbled upon a starship he wasn't looking for in the second. This is typical of Kirk's adventures: they turn out to be important, but by sheer accident, not by Starfleet's design. Why would Kirk get preferential treatment, or be trusted with exceptionally difficult jobs, as the result of two chance adventures unrelated to diplomacy?

So I really don't think the Ameniar and Troyus situations were considered everyday events by the Federation (and thus Starfleet).

The first was something the UFP responded to at its leisure; the second arose from alien initiative. Yet the UFP didn't send Kirk to do anything about either issue. Instead, Kirk was to do nothing while professionals handled the job (Eminiar) or the locals sorted it out by themselves (Elaan/Troyius). That Kirk interfered, against Federation intent and orders, just shows they never should have trusted the job to the guy!

I would take your point of view for Commssioner Hedford, but even then only if we assume the Enterprise just happened to be around when she contracted Sakuro's disease and if they weren't her actual ride to Epsilon Canaris 3.

Why do you feel that Commissioners are rare things? That Kirk ran into two might simply indicate there are hundreds milling about at any given moment.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vandervecken]

I have to flat-out disagree on the Coridan question--that was a big one, tons of diplomats. I doubt something like that was given to just any captain.

My point here is that it only happened to Kirk this one time. Yet it is likely to happen to those diplomats pretty much annually if not more often; given how agitated they all were over a commonplace-sounding incident, either their life is extremely dull overall, or then getting agitated over any given incident and rushing off to a conference to settle it out is what they exist for. So Kirk isn't doing a unique job, he's just doing a common job once.

By the time this occurred in season 2, Kirk had Sherman's Planet under his belt and also stopping Tracey in The Omega Glory, and both must have counted bigtime with the Federation Council

Significantly, Kirk was not sent to perform either of those jobs. He responded to an illegal emergency call in the first case, and stumbled upon a starship he wasn't looking for in the second. This is typical of Kirk's adventures: they turn out to be important, but by sheer accident, not by Starfleet's design. Why would Kirk get preferential treatment, or be trusted with exceptionally difficult jobs, as the result of two chance adventures unrelated to diplomacy?

So I really don't think the Ameniar and Troyus situations were considered everyday events by the Federation (and thus Starfleet).

The first was something the UFP responded to at its leisure; the second arose from alien initiative. Yet the UFP didn't send Kirk to do anything about either issue. Instead, Kirk was to do nothing while professionals handled the job (Eminiar) or the locals sorted it out by themselves (Elaan/Troyius). That Kirk interfered, against Federation intent and orders, just shows they never should have trusted the job to the guy!

I would take your point of view for Commssioner Hedford, but even then only if we assume the Enterprise just happened to be around when she contracted Sakuro's disease and if they weren't her actual ride to Epsilon Canaris 3.

Why do you feel that Commissioners are rare things? That Kirk ran into two might simply indicate there are hundreds milling about at any given moment.

Timo Saloniemi

I do understand that Kirk wasn't assigned in Tribbles or Glory. That he was 1) able to handle Sherman's Planet successfully, and 2) intent on bringing Tracey in (showing his commitment to Federation law, even when one of his own was facing the dock) was what spoke well of him. That they were chance occurrences doesn't make his handling of them any less successful, and the Feds would want someone who can think on his feet.

My point is that not ANY captain would be assigned to diplo missions of war and peace. I don't think commissioners are rare--for Hedford I meant that if she caught the disease after being taken to Epsilon Canaris by another starship that the Enterprise's assignment to take her to a starbase was, as you say, just routine, but in my framework not, if they were the ones who actually brought her there--but I don't think just any captain is given these assignments. I am actually confused as to why you think Coridan wasn't a big deal. It think it was, aa portrayed, a pretty big deal.

Yes, maybe these things happen to diplomats more often, although in the Coridan case only top-tier people were assigned by their governments. But I don't think they happen to starship caprtains that often, and then mostly to rock stars.

 

[C.E. Evans]

stop the Xindi superweapon, taking down Nero, or halting the Borg after Wolf 359 (can't really ignore those incidents)

Can't they?

No they can't because they were threats against Earth. It'd be like pretending they didn't happen...while actually discussing them happening.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If the Enterprise had been selected at random for our viewing, then the mediocrity principle would suggest that it is having average experiences.

The more likely theory is that we're looking at the most amazing deployment, because it's the most amazing.

The "dull day" video that Metryq linked to makes it possible to imagine being bored if you were captain of a starship. When nothing is going wrong, what do you do? The crew would have to do tons of training and drills, work, work, work.

The reality is, you would sustain your spirits on the sheer fact that you were out there, which is a stunning place to be. You'd try to keep your sense of wonder.

 

[Timo]

I do understand that Kirk wasn't assigned in Tribbles or Glory.

Indeed, sorry about dismissing that aspect - I just wanted to exploit the chance to show yet another pair of adventures that sprang from a very mundane start.

That they were chance occurrences doesn't make his handling of them any less successful, and the Feds would want someone who can think on his feet.

I don't see why Kirk's performance there should be classified as exceptional, though. For all we know, every starship captain performs that well, or then gets reassigned to a lesser vessel.

My point is that not ANY captain would be assigned to diplo missions of war and peace.

But Kirk has never been assigned to a mission of war and peace. "Journey to Babel" was a mere taxi job where Kirk was not supposed to get involved in any way. That he had to do some bodyguarding on the side was unexpected, and it's not a job his earlier successes would have been a particularly good resume for.

The same goes double for all the times Kirk ferried individual Ambassadors or Commissioners on a specific mission. If Starfleet had known that he would cut in when he felt Fox or Ferris wasn't performing adequately, they would probably have fired Kirk!

I am actually confused as to why you think Coridan wasn't a big deal.

Sure it was. I just don't feel that a big deal would automatically be that big a deal. These ambassadors and their retinues supposedly handle big deals all the time. And the skippers who ferry them aren't doing anything exceptional, either: Kirk ferried 114 delegates, which meant envoys plus retinues, which in turn supposedly means somebody else was ferrying the other 500 or so. Every time the 150 UFP members go to a fact-finding mission or a big vote, multiple starships no doubt are summoned (indeed, the penultimate version of the "Journey to Babel" script referred to one USS Eagle that had been likewise assaulted). Heck, even if the number of UFP members during TOS is just fifty or so, that would still be dozens more than Kirk would have the time to do a dedicated pickup for.

No they can't because they were threats against Earth. It'd be like pretending they didn't happen...while actually discussing them happening.

The fact of the matter is that these threats are never discussed, though. Nobody ever makes any mention of our heroes' contribution to the events, and if the events themselves get a mention, it is in the most vague of terms - a generic reference to the Borg threat, perhaps, or another to some sort of a state of emergency roughly around the time of the TOS movies.

For our heroes and the people cohabiting that universe, no Trek movie or episode is worth reiterating. Which either means that these adventures are particularly shameful and for that reason censored out of existence (but why should they be?), that future people are exceptionally stoic about everything (except they are not), or that a V'Ger or a Whale Probe is a humdrum event in the course of Earth history (a distinct possibility, at least when no alternatives present themselves).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

No they can't because they were threats against Earth. It'd be like pretending they didn't happen...while actually discussing them happening.

The fact of the matter is that these threats are never discussed, though.

Sure they are. To say otherwise means that everyone is pretending they never happened or deciding to collectively forget about them. They may not come up in conversation when our heroes are too busy dealing with the latest threat to Earth (or Planet whatever), but to say that they're never discussed anywhere?

 

[Timo]

Okay... If we assume that these specific events are discussed even though they never are, we must also assume that zillions of other events of similar magnitude get discussed the same way, and there's nothing special about the particular ones that made it into the Trek movies and episodes. To assume anything else would be to introduce truly arbitrary bias.

We cannot escape the fact that these events really are fairly insignificant to our observed set of heroes, though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[C.E. Evans]

Okay... If we assume that these specific events are discussed even though they never are, we must also assume that zillions of other events of similar magnitude get discussed the same way, and there's nothing special about the particular ones that made it into the Trek movies and episodes. To assume anything else would be to introduce truly arbitrary bias.

Life is truly arbitrary. People talk about things that are relevant to them. Always have. One group of people may talk about this, another group may talk about that. The main point, though, is that someone's always talking about something somewhere.

We cannot escape the fact that these events really are fairly insignificant to our observed set of heroes, though.

That's not a fact, though. It just means that our heroes are too busy with what they're currently dealing with to stop and lament about something they're not currently dealing with. Doesn't mean that it was fairly insignificant to them.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^Exactly. Fictional characters--as with real people--don't rehash everything that's ever happened to them every single day. They might draw on what they learned from a specific experience because it prepared them to deal with what they're currently facing, but there would be no reason to discuss everything else they've been through.

That's why I'm always surprised when people cite Kirk and Spock never talking about V'Ger as proof that it has no place in Star Trek's continuity. They don't talk about it because it's not relevant, not because it didn't happen.

--Sran