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Does Having Troi On The Bridge Make TNG Seem Dated?

I'm not sure which episode you're discussing, but it would probably be a time travel episode. Perhaps the one with the Enterprise-C?

No, because in that episode the more militaristic Enterprise-D didn't have a counselor on board. I think it'd be more one of the episodes where an older character is on the ship, either the EaF with old McCoy visiting or the episode with the de-aging Admiral on the ship.
 
After a few too many officers flew their shuttlecrafts into the maws of giant space worms, having a counselor on board seemed a good idea. Take almost any random episode of any Star Trek series, and look what happens to the characters. People are constantly losing their minds, getting possessed, being made pawns by omnipotent beings, trapped in sentient computer programs, split into good/evil twins... It's not all cataloging gaseous anomalies.
 
Kirk had a psychiatrist on his ship too, the female doctor from "Where no man has gone before". So Starfleet always had them, just not on the bridge.
 
^ true and unlike TNG I think TOS mentions at some point how some people crack when they're in space. (then we watch a few episodes and see why :) )

Anyway, Troi on the bridge mostly made sense to me. Do I remember Picard saying he wanted her there in the beginning?
 
OK, just to clarify: this isn't about having a therapist on board the ship in general, but rather as one of the "big three" on the bridge.


I can understand how they'd want a psychologist for a long-term mission on what is almost a small town in space.


But if Starfleet was putting counselors on the bridge of all their bigger starships, not just empathic ones, then yeah, I think that's pretty silly.

I mean, they have teachers for the kids on these galaxy-class starships. Should they get a seat on the bridge as well?
 
My two cents:
Teachers teach little kids. Counselors counsel adults. Her skills were one-on-one/couples/family and other in-office counseling, and xenopsychology, which Picard made use of on the bridge - her empathic skills were a bonus*, and not to be too replied upon or every starship of every power would have a mind-reader seated next to the captain/commander/gul/Vorta/etc.

I wonder if she may have also been trained in some futuristic schools of organizational psychology of some kind, where she'd have to report to Picard on how smoothly things were functioning overall according to different theories/schools. Like an organizational consultant at a large company or something, if that's a thing.

*I'm ambivalent on the privacy issue. Empaths/telepaths aren't machines constructed to spy on people but natural beings of the universe. To ask them not to read your mind may be like asking you not to look at the guy standing in front of you, without his first signing a waver for you to open your eyes. In a world post-first-contact with telepaths, you may just have to get used to being mentally naked as though you were going to a nude beach and had to get used to being physically naked.
 
I didn't mean there should be schoolteachers on the bridge. I was using a deliberately ridiculous example to make a point.


It would've been cool if Troi had actually been a formally trained diplomat and had served as the ship's ambassador, like Neelix on Voyager except competent.


Was there dialogue to the effect that she was the ship's unofficial diplomat or something?
 
There were times where she did fulfill a diplomatic role, like in the "First Contact" episode.

Frankly, being a xeno-diplomat or xeno-specialist would have made sense. So she'd have two roles onboard as psychiatrist and xeno-specialist.
 
Isn't casting all about drawing in viewers? All the characters on the bridge are there for a reason -- they each appeal to a particular demographic. Riker appeals to the ladies. Troi appeals to guys. Wesley appeals to kids. Geordi may have been intended to draw in an African-American audience. Picard is for the Brits -- or the French maybe? :lol:
 
Wesley's for the kids? I sure hope so because he wasn't for the adults... Wait. What kinda kid would look up to Wesley?!
 
The short answer is "no". While she never proved as useful as she could have been, Troi was there to provide empathic information to Picard. In terms of her job description, a "therapist" fulfills Roddenberry's edict that mental health will be as important as physical health in the future, especially as we understand the mind better, and I agree with that. So its no on both counts...

RAMA
 
^I agree with you about Troi, RAMA.

Wesley's for the kids? I sure hope so because he wasn't for the adults... Wait. What kinda kid would look up to Wesley?!

I loved Wesley when I was a kid. He was the identification figure.

Wesley's for the kids? I sure hope so because he wasn't for the adults... Wait. What kinda kid would look up to Wesley?!

When you were a kid, Rom's Sehlat, didn't you ever dream about becoming the hero & saving the day? And outsmarting adults in the process?

I'm too old to even remember being a kid, let alone what I dreamt about! :lol:
 
I'd have thought Geordi was for the kids. After all, he was played by the Reading Rainbow presenter.
 
I'm fairly surprised no one came up with a good defense for her being there.

Here's what I've always assumed (and no, its not just her empathy).

A trained Psychologist (which she is) would be a strong asset to have by your side to help evaluate the intentions of a potential threat. Her empathy HELPS, but her training (and to some degree her heritage) should very much help her in giving advice on the situation. Things like kinesic physiology and understanding of cultures are strong assets. She's demonstrated on multiple occasions she has a very strong understanding of interspecies anthropology by helping research backgrounds or creating prep work for encounters.

Beyond that, there are multiple occasions she's tasked with coordination related to crew issues such as evacuations or moving personnel to safe locations.

Post promotion, theres even more reason for her to be on the bridge because she can help on with command functions that would normally be exclusively delegated to Riker such as injury reports, structural damage reports, etc. Helping to coordinate that is a big task and freeing Riker up to go review certain situations first hand ultimately frees Picard up to evaluate situations as needed.

Her place on the bridge does a lot.
 
The short answer is "no". While she never proved as useful as she could have been, Troi was there to provide empathic information to Picard. In terms of her job description, a "therapist" fulfills Roddenberry's edict that mental health will be as important as physical health in the future, especially as we understand the mind better, and I agree with that. So its no on both counts...

RAMA

However, does it make sense for her to be on the bridge the vast majority of the time? A therapist and a diplomatic aide are very important yes and depending on the mission, probably warrants a spot on the senior roster, but they're called for specific purposes that don't happen very often compared to other bridge positions. And frankly, the times when the Enterprise comes across another ship or anomalies with mysterious new life forms are one thing, but that's a small minority -- only slightly more frequently are coming across phenomena with no life forms that can be studied with a simple probe or buoy, but the vast majority of the time is spent traveling, delivering supplies, meeting convoys, etc... things that are usually too mundane for an episodic plot and things that happen between episodes. Days or weeks can go by between episodes, sometimes between acts within an episode. If the Enterprise is at warp for 6 days and encounters an enemy on day 7, it makes sense for Troi to be there on day 7, but the show implies that she's on the bridge when nothing's going on, aka the other 6 days of the week.

I can accept that Roddenberry ruled that mental health be just as important as physical health because that's a very real concern today, but if that's true, why does Deanna get a bridge post but not Crusher? If the answer is because Crusher has to deal with the well-being of 1,014 people, then the same is true for Troi as well (after all, the show established that she makes appointments, sets aside time for crew, and devises treatment -- just as a real therapist should). That's on top of research and studying she'd have to do for anticipated diplomatic missions as well.

The captain might be hogging Troi, when really the rest of the crew and future missions might be depending on her! Now *that's* dating it.

Also, let's clarify something: Picard keeping Troi on the bridge because of her empathic abilities is different than Picard keeping a counselor as a bridge officer. There are non-empathic/telepathic counselors in Starfleet -- do they get bridge positions because they're counselors? Are they denied a post because they're not psychic? Keeping someone around for their job and keeping someone around because of their unique powers are two different things, and could be something of a cheat. I get a sense that people in this thread are confusing the two: if Troi were a mere human, would she be as crucial for many of Enterprise's crises? Would Picard go to her as often?

The Enterprise-E probably would've been crippled much sooner by the Scimitar if Troi didn't lend a hand -- but that was b/c of her telepathy, not because of her counseling skills. An equally skilled but non-psychic counselor would have been useless at the crucial moment. Obviously having a psychic on the bridge at all times makes sense, but not a counselor.
 
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Also, let's clarify something: Picard keeping Troi on the bridge because of her empathic abilities is different than Picard keeping a counselor as a bridge officer. There are non-empathic/telepathic counselors in Starfleet -- do they get bridge positions because they're counselors? Are they denied a post because they're not psychic? Keeping someone around for their job and keeping someone around because of their unique powers are two different things, and could be something of a cheat.
I believe that's exactly why Picard wanted Troi on his bridge, to give him an advantage at his immediate disposal he wouldn't normally have. On other ships, a counselor may not be a bridge position at all.
I get a sense that people in this thread are confusing the two: if Troi were a mere human, would she be as crucial for many of Enterprise's crises? Would Picard go to her as often?

The Enterprise-E probably would've been crippled much sooner by the Scimitar if Troi didn't lend a hand -- but that was b/c of her telepathy, not because of her counseling skills. An equally skilled but non-psychic counselor would have been useless at the crucial moment. Obviously having a psychic on the bridge at all times makes sense, but not a counselor.
It may have been a case that Troi was an empath who just happened to be a counselor, so he took advantage of both those facts. Another captain might do the same or perhaps not liked the idea of a counselor on his or her bridge at all--especially if she or he was an empath.
 
This seems an example of the sometimes silly way Starfleet works. If having an empath/telepath on board is very important, every ship should do its best to have one.(I don't mean draft or coerce, just incentivize whatever telepathic species are in the UFP to join)


If it's not, why is it up to the captain if the counselor is on the bridge or not? There should be a degree of organizational standards about this.


Otherwise,it's like Picard puts her up there because she's his security blanket or something.
 
This seems an example of the sometimes silly way Starfleet works. If having an empath/telepath on board is very important, every ship should do its best to have one.(I don't mean draft or coerce, just incentivize whatever telepathic species are in the UFP to join)
A quota system? That's kinda like saying every starship should have a mandatory Soong-type android and a Klingon security chief because it worked for Picard, or a Vulcan science officer because it worked for Kirk.

For all intents and purposes, telepaths like Troi are rare in Starfleet and Picard snatched up one of the few that were in the service.
If it's not, why is it up to the captain if the counselor is on the bridge or not?
Because that person is the captain and has the final say who is on the bridge of his ship, IMO. Picard wanted a counselor on his bridge, while another captain might have had a chief science officer instead. Another still might have had the second officer be a designated bridge position or have security and tactical be separate jobs.
There should be a degree of organizational standards about this.
Some captains may not want an assigned telepath, because they feel they don't need one and can make decisions without one. That would deny those captains the right to have the command crew that worked best for them. What may work for Picard may not work for Captain Joe, for example.
Otherwise,it's like Picard puts her up there because she's his security blanket or something.
Why not? It was Picard's prerogative as captain to have Troi with him. Not that different from Archer wanting Tucker as his chief engineer or Kirk wanting another Vulcan as his chief science officer in TMP. They wanted to work with people they personally liked or felt would be an asset to them. You may call that a security blanket, but isn't that Picard's right as captain to have a senior staff he feels comfortable with?
 
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