Does anyone like "That Which Survives"?

[Bad Atom]

I decided to give the episode another chance, and I still have some issues with it. It still feels very uneventful and repetitive - and as I've been rewatching the third season, this seems to be a common problem. Characters repeating dialogue for the audience's benefit, story points dragged on longer than necessary and hammered home more forcefully than before.

Spock's behavior still irritates me. Part of the problem is the writing, and the other problem is he doesn't have Kirk or McCoy to bounce off of. I like the idea of Spock and Scotty working together and even butting heads, but not the way it was handled here. I could understand Spock's behavior if this happened earlier in the series, but by now we know he is more experienced at dealing with his emotional human crewmates.

That said, I agree that Losira's effect is very cool and the sound is creepy. I liked the use of secondary characters, and that Sulu got more to do. Lee Meriwether's performance is very good and full of subtle regret. Her speech at the end is also very good. And I don't know why, but I liked the purple sky.

But it's still a two-star episode at best.

 

[AC84]

To be honest, about the only thing I don't like about the episode is how Losira disappears and the sound effect the follows. That's it. If they changed that for Trek Remastered, it would be a solid episode.

 

[Eddie Roth]

This is one of the episodes that's so forgettable that I actually forget them! I must've seen this one at least ten times (because that's about as many times as I've seen the complete TOS), but every time I see it again, it's like a brand new show to me because, well, I forgot it. Call it merciful oblivion because it does suck. So slow, so uneventful.

 

[CDP]

Always been a favourite of mine.

 

[hellocomputer]

<< Lee Meriwether's performance is very good and full of subtle regret. >>

"Touching" (Losira :P) on what Bad Atom had mention in an earlier post, I came away from watching "That Which Survives" with the sense that there was an ongoing struggle between the cold, calculating logic of the Kalandan Cube Computer and the warmth and humanity of Losira, which the Kalandan Cube Computer had copied too perfectly. The computer copied Losira's personality into itself so well that it became schizophrenic. It was this dual personality conflict within itself that bought the Enterprise and the landing party enough time to survive.
I found the following below posted in Google Groups. It explains very well about the subtle nuances of this, IMHO, very interesting and entertaining 3rd Season TOS episode.

Also, Lee Meriwether is exotically beautiful as Losira. Is it just me or does she she look like a genie?

<< At first, it seems very inefficient to make a defense system that can create a holographic weapon/assassin capable of only killing a specific person/target. But, as we look at today's most modern armies, the trend has been to develop weapons that are smarter and more accurate all the time. We have gone from having to drop thousands of bombs to destroy 1 target like in the World Wars to needing only 1 bomb from 1 plane to do the job. Now, the weapons are so accurate that it you can chose which window of the building for the bomb to fly into. Collateral damage is now a very important factor in how wars are fought. With Losira and the Kalandan Computer Defense System, this way of fighting is reaching its most logical end point.
Losira is indestructible and only kills what she targets and remains harmless to all others.
Second of all, the humanity and essence of Losira was also copied by the Kalandan Defense Computer when the computer copied her image to use as a holographic assassin. As Captain Kirk explained at the end of the story, the computer was too perfect.
"It projected so much of Losira's personality into the replica that it felt regret, guilt at killing. That bought us the time we needed to destroy it."
This explains why the Enterprise was transported 990.7 light years away from the Kalandan Outpost instead of just being destroyed right away. Losira's personality within the computer, which the Kalandan computer had also copied, was waging a battle with the the computer over the lives of the Enterprise & her crew. She did not want to kill and as Losira said, "Killing... is wrong." but "She was sent" because the computer compelled her as a hologram to kill. Whenever someone was killed, the computer succeeded in forcing Losira to do it and whenever she was able to successfully resist, she was able to save the ship from destruction by sending it far away and later by sabotaging
the engines in a way that gave Scotty time to fix it instead of the Enterprise blowing up instantly and also making the ship go faster so as to return back to the Kalandan Outpost in time to save Captain Kirk and the landing party. >>

 

[Doug Otte]

It's funny - this one never did much for me over the past 35 years that I've been watching Trek. However, spurred by this thread, I watched it again over the weekend, and I loved it! It's definitely one of the best 3rd season episodes. I agree with the good and bad points noted by other above.

A question: was Lieutenant Radha supposed to be Asian-Indian? The name sounds vaguely Indian, and it looked like she had a mark in the middle of her forehead.

BTW, wasn't this the only time a woman sat at the control console (other than Uhura temporarily relieving somebody and Number 1)?

Doug

 

[hellocomputer]

Lt. Radha is definitely Hindi aka Indian and she has the Bindi, or Hindu eye, on her forehead. Besides Uhura, Lt Radha is the only woman seen at the helm of the original NCC-1701 as far as I can remember.

 

[hellocomputer]

Another point of distinction with this episode is the body count. Heck, besides 2 redshirts named Wyatt and Watkins who are killed by Losira's deadly touch, we also see Lt D'Amato, a blueshirt, get knocked off too! He's the only blueshirt I can remember who dies while on a landing party unless you count Bones who got the "point" in "Shore Leave."
Season 3 did not see many redshirts get killed off but "That Which Survives" definitely was an excemption.

 

[hellocomputer]

"That Which Survives" is the TOS episode where the Enterprise reaches its top speed of warp 14.1 and also where we find out just how hot (8,000 degress Celsius) a phaser set at max can get. It's also nice to see a redshirt save the day at the end of the episode by phasering the Kalandan Cube Computer, thus saving Kirk & the landing party from the Losira triplets. This is also a first in TOS.

 

[Mallory]

Welcome to the board hellocomputer! I hope you enjoy your time here.

In the future if you find that you want to add a thought or two to a previous post and no one has posted after you, you can just edit your existing post and tack in any new stuff. That makes the thread a little easier for everyone to follow.

It's good to see you in our part of the world. Have fun!

 

[Botany Bay]

One of the 3rd season's best - Nimoy seems half asleep though

A rare appearance doing something of note for Sulu - some good stuff for Scotty and I believe the only time in the whole series we see an Enterprise crewwoman over the age of 30.

A 3rd season fave of mine :thumbsup:

 

[hellocomputer]

Thanks for the advice, Mallory. I have browsed over this cool forum from time to time but up til now I never thought of jumping into any discussions. "That Which Survives" is an episode I very much enjoy and one which I feel a majority of trek fans out there either hate, ignore, or have simply forgotten about due to the attitudes of the first 2 groups of fans out there who malign it. You would be very surprised by the number of hardcore TOS fans out there who can barely name any of the scenes or details of this terrific episode.
For me, this is truly a landmark episode of TOS & Star Trek in general, and I will tell you why. First, although Losira is not designated a hologram, she really is and this is huge. Holograms were only discovered back in the mid-1960s and so you can forgive the writers for not stating that she was a hologram as opposed to being described as a projection of some vague sort. Landrau was also a hologram but we can all agree that he was of a ghostly, non-coporeal sort where as Losira was as solid and real as the bodies of redshirts that she left behind. The advanced Kalandan holographic technology that the Enterprise must have recovered from this outpost may very well have been the basis for the holodecks and EMHs which is now found throughout the TNG, DS9, & Voyager timelines. Second, the Enterprise may very well have discovered an alien race with a direct relationship to the legendary Iconians. The interstellar transporter that the Kalandan Cube Computer used to transport the Enterprise a mind-numbing 990.7 light-years away in a blink of an eye could very well be the same technology employed by the Iconians, except on a much larger scale, like say, starships.
Third, "That Which Survives" is unique in that this is the only instance where Captain Kirk is determined to stay away from a gorgeous woman who is literally begging to put her hands on him. ;P
Fourth, the number of supporting cast as Enterprise crew members who appear in this episode is unrivaled. Dr. M'Benga is running sickbay and appears in several scenes while Bones goes missing with the landing party. We previously saw him only in "A Private Little War." We also get Lt. Rahda, a Hindi and a woman, at the helm, chief geologist D'Amato, engineer John Watkins, and a redshirt who saves the day at the end to go along with a very active role for Sulu throughout this episode. "That Which Survives" symbolizes what Gene Roddenberry and the writers of Star Trek were planning to offer for Season 2 of TOS, Star Trek with participation from cast members other that Kirk & Spock, which is basically what Season 3 of TOS boiled down to from week to week.
Fifth, "That Which Survives" is the only TOS episode which has its storyline continue in paperback form. The Star Trek book, "One Small Step," literally picks up word for word, scene for scene, from the last 5 minutes of "That Which Survives" and eventually becomes Part II of "That Which Survives." It begins with Losira blipping out after failing to touch Captain Kirk and the landing party finding the hidden entrance into the Kalandan Outpost. It also details the scene where the recording of Losira is played and we learn of her tragic plight. While "That Which Survives" fades out at the end to a shot of the Enterprise, the book goes on to describe the inability of the transporter to beam the landing party up due to the detection by its biofilter of an unknown microorganism. I'm not going to ruin the storyline for those who might be interested in picking up "One Small Step," but I will say that the same disease which kill Losira and her people has now infected Kirk and company. I will also add that Losira will reappear in the book, much to the delight of our favorite Captain :thumbsup:

[image]http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=92&pos=76[/image]

 

[Therin of Andor]

hellocomputer said:
"That Which Survives" is the only TOS episode which has its storyline continue in paperback form.

I'm not so sure I'd say "only". Many of the novels are sequels to TOS episodes, and some are prequels.

A few examples: "The Janus Gate" trilogy starts off at the end of "The Naked Time" and has the crew filling in the missing days of their accidental slingshot.

The "Errand of Vengeance" trilogy starts at the end of "Balance of Terror", incorporates the action of "What Are Little Girls Made Of", and then leads right up to "Dagger of the Mind".

"The Errand of Fury" trilogy starts straight after "The Devil in the Dark" and will eventually lead into the first Klingon episode, "Errand of Mercy".

"Double, Double" has a second starship visit the androids of Exo III and we find out there's another android Dr Brown, who attempts to duplicate their crew. "TNG: Immortal Coil" has Dr Soong discovering Ruk's body at the bottom of the crevasse.

"The Cry of the Onlies" revisits "Miri" and "Requiem for Methuselah.

"Yesterday's Son" and "Time for Yesterday" revisit Sarpeidon of "All Our Yesterdays".

Part of "Strangers From the Sky" leads into "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

"The Galactic Whirlpool" has the tired Enterprise crew in desperate need of shore leave, so they head to Space Station K-7 for peace and quiet, not knowing tribbles wait (in "The Trouble With Tribbles").

"Garth of Izar" revisits surviving characters from "Whom Gods Destroy".

 

[Mutara Nebula 1967]

I find this to be one of the best third season efforts...mainly because of the runaway Enterprise "B" plot.
In fact it contains one of my favorite moments....

I love the female ensign who clearly is more interested in self preservation than any fondness for Scotty-who has an itchy trigger finger on the pod eject button-so much that Spock actually has to caution her that it will only be ejected on HIS orders.

 

[Kagan]

Do you have to wonder why Lee Merriweather only got one shot at playing Catwoman?

"I'm for D'Amato"
"I'm for Sulu"
"I'm for Kirk"
"I'm for Barnaby Jones"

When I was a kid, this episode scared the crap out of me. For a week, I was afraid of the girl sitting in the classroom desk behind mine. She was always tapping me on the shoulder to borrow my crayons.

Actually, I do enjoy the storyline. A sentinel holographic/computer program is quite plausible. The idea has been repeated in some form or another in the other parts of the ST Universe.

The moving set is a little hokey.

 

[Doug Otte]

hellocomputer said:
Lt. Radha is definitely Hindi aka Indian and she has the Bindi, or Hindu eye, on her forehead. Besides Uhura, Lt Radha is the only woman seen at the helm of the original NCC-1701 as far as I can remember.

Thanks, hellocomputer, for that answer. I'm just wondering: how do you know she's Indian? Is it based upon her bindi and her name, or is there some other source of info? She doesn't appear to be Indian to me, other than the bindi. Of course, I shouldn't rely on a "stereotypical" image for such a large, diverse country. BTW, Hindi is the language; I don't think it refers to an ethnic group/nationality.

Doug

 

[Doug Otte]

Kagan said:
...When I was a kid, this episode scared the crap out of me. For a week, I was afraid of the girl sitting in the classroom desk behind mine. She was always tapping me on the shoulder to borrow my crayons...

Thanks! Doug

 

[Wingsley]

I enjoy "That Which Survives" to this day, precisely because it is unusual for a TOS outing.

TOS, and STAR TREK overall, is typically a character-driven show. This means that the story is about how the characters deal with a new challenge, and the drama arises from how they learn and grow as a result. Most character driven shows are about one or more main characters facing a decision, and the drama arises from the squeeze they're in while they're making up their mind(s).

"That Which Survives" is a rare treat because it is an off-format show: it is a plot-driven show. The story is about the Enterprise as a whole being helplessly thrown into an unusual situation. The story does not rotate around Kirk or Spock making a decision that says something about their personalities. Instead, the characters are thrown into an action-adventure tumble and we're all along for the roller-coaster ride.

The plot could've been better-written. If you notice when Losira first confronts Sulu, you can hear the floor boards creak on the set, so that wasn't a shining moment for TOS. And Kirk's goofy question "Are there men on this planet?" is as laughable today as it was when I first saw it in reruns back in the '70's.

Despite all that, "That Which Survives" is fun. Better than a "guilty pleasure" but definitely not in the league with "City on the Edge of Forever". One good thing about TOS' final year was that some episodes started to take the ship and crew a little more seriously. We get to see a female helmsman of obvious Indian descent. Scotty gets to monkeywrench his boiler. (Cheesey but still enjoyable in a '60's kinda way.)

I did not have a problem with the Kalaandan computer behaving strangely. We do not know how long the thing was left unattended or what the circumstances were when Losira set it up on auto-pilot. She could've been suffering from the disease and botched the setting. One big disappointment is that the end of this ep is the end of the story. This would've made a great launching pad for a story arc about something being afoot on this frontier.

Personally, I thought Lee Meriwether's outfit was cute.

 

[WillCAD]

I always loved this episode, for many of the reasons others have already listed.

Later in life my perspective changed and I also thought this episode showcased how woefully under-equipped Star Fleet landing parties were. Sure, they all had phasers and communicators, all but Kirk had tricorders, and Bones had his standard field med kit, but aside from that they were empty-handed - no rations, no water, no survival equipment, not even a knife among 4 officers.

 

[Kagan]

Doug Otte said:

Kagan said:
...When I was a kid, this episode scared the crap out of me. For a week, I was afraid of the girl sitting in the classroom desk behind mine. She was always tapping me on the shoulder to borrow my crayons...

Thanks! Doug

You're welcome!
I was in the fourth grade...it was very traumatic.
A year later, she was the cutest thing in my world.