Does Anyone Know...?

[GemHaters]

Why Rene Auberjonois' scenes were cut from the theatrical version of The Undiscovered Country, and then added to the VHS home release, and then cut again for the DVD boxset? I've looked it up and can't seem to find any reason why this happened. One would think that his scenes were pretty crucial, seeing as how he is the assasin. With him cut out, it makes you think the Klingons tried to assasinate the President. When it was actually a Starfleet Officer.

 

[JB2005]

Because Gene didn't like the idea that Starfleet was militarised, and the Colonel West scenes seemed to reinforce this idea...

My DVD has West on though...

 

[GemHaters]

Because Gene didn't like the idea that Starfleet was militarised, and the Colonel West scenes seemed to reinforce this idea...

My DVD has West on though...

Do you have TOS movie boxset?
My VHS version does have the West scenes, but my boxset does not.

 

[JB2005]

No, I got the "Star Trek Collection" Magazines a couple of years ago and got the whole of TNG and the Movies...the Movie discs are pretty basic, literally the films and the trailers so that might have something to do with it?

 

[GemHaters]

No, I got the "Star Trek Collection" Magazines a couple of years ago and got the whole of TNG and the Movies...the Movie discs are pretty basic, literally the films and the trailers so that might have something to do with it?

Ah, well, that explains it. Thanks for the input.

Anybody else?

 

[JB2005]

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek_VI:_The_Undiscovered_Country#Different_versions

Extra scenes and edits. Until 2009, the theatrical cut had never been released commercially in English. The original 1992 home video release added back in the "Operation Retrieve" scenes (originally, the scene in the president's office ended with the line "This president is not above the law"), the scene between Spock, Scotty and Valeris directly before the trial, and the unmasking of Colonel West on Khitomer (just a few shots are added: Colonel Worf touching West's blood and saying "This is not Klingon blood" between Cartwright trying to escape and Sulu stopping him, the actual unmasking and the C-in-C and Worf looking at each other directly after). These scenes remained in all subsequent commercial releases until 2009. The 2003 Special Edition DVD release added in glimpses of Cartwright, Chang and Nanclus during Spock and Valeris' mind meld and slight alternate takes during her interrogation on the bridge. The original cut, albeit with the 1.95:1 aspect ratio, was present on the 1993 dubbed German VHS release. It was also released on iTunes, cut at 1.95:1 and stretched slightly to 2.00:1 (640x320). The various releases of the movie on Blu-ray Disc and DVD in 2009 featured the original theatrical cut in its original aspect ratio.

 

[P Tom]

IIRC, Colonel West (Rene Auberjonois) was describing the rescue operation to the Federation President and Starfleet admirals, but somehow the ROMULAN ambassador was also present, which did make the scene strange as to why would the Romulans be involved in this supposedly secret STARFLEET operation. Since this Colonel West scene was cut here, so was his scene as the Klingon assassin at the end.

 

[GemHaters]

IIRC, Colonel West (Rene Auberjonois) was describing the rescue operation to the Federation President and Starfleet admirals, but somehow the ROMULAN ambassador was also present, which did make the scene strange as to why would the Romulans be involved in this supposedly secret STARFLEET operation. Since this Colonel West scene was cut here, so was his scene as the Klingon assassin at the end.

Ah, interesting. Thanks for the insight.

 

[ed629]

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek_VI:_The_Undiscovered_Country#Different_versions

Extra scenes and edits. Until 2009, the theatrical cut had never been released commercially in English. The original 1992 home video release added back in the "Operation Retrieve" scenes (originally, the scene in the president's office ended with the line "This president is not above the law"), the scene between Spock, Scotty and Valeris directly before the trial, and the unmasking of Colonel West on Khitomer (just a few shots are added: Colonel Worf touching West's blood and saying "This is not Klingon blood" between Cartwright trying to escape and Sulu stopping him, the actual unmasking and the C-in-C and Worf looking at each other directly after). These scenes remained in all subsequent commercial releases until 2009. The 2003 Special Edition DVD release added in glimpses of Cartwright, Chang and Nanclus during Spock and Valeris' mind meld and slight alternate takes during her interrogation on the bridge. The original cut, albeit with the 1.95:1 aspect ratio, was present on the 1993 dubbed German VHS release. It was also released on iTunes, cut at 1.95:1 and stretched slightly to 2.00:1 (640x320). The various releases of the movie on Blu-ray Disc and DVD in 2009 featured the original theatrical cut in its original aspect ratio.

I think I have this on DVD, I know the klingon blood scenes are in it, and pretty sure has the extra scenes during the meld are there too. I'll have to watch sometime soon to make sure.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I guess they weren't convinced people would believe he could change his appearance later in the movie...

 

[sonak]

whenever I see his name, I have the irrational desire to pronounce it as "jon- oyce" rather than "jon-wa."

 

[Tom]

Was just thinking, so there are colonels in starfleet? He should be a commander. Is there another division of Starfleet that we don't know of? We know In Enterprise there was trhe Maco's that use the Army/AF/Marine rank structure, but i thought in TOS and beyond it was just Starfleet with there Navy style rank structure.

 

[Ssosmcin]

whenever I see his name, I have the irrational desire to pronounce it as "jon- oyce" rather than "jon-wa."

I remember Larry King had the whole DS9 cast on and he tried to pronounce Rene's name and totally butchered it. It came out "Ah-bor-gen-oy!" Thanks to that interview, though, I got to hear the actual pronunciation and never forgot.

Why Rene Auberjonois' scenes were cut from the theatrical version of The Undiscovered Country, and then added to the VHS home release, and then cut again for the DVD boxset? I've looked it up and can't seem to find any reason why this happened. One would think that his scenes were pretty crucial, seeing as how he is the assasin. With him cut out, it makes you think the Klingons tried to assasinate the President. When it was actually a Starfleet Officer.

The confusion here is that the DVDs all have the added scenes, but the Blu-Ray release is the theatrical cut.

Now, if you cut him out, as they did in the theatrical version, the assassin is Klingon. This is not a problem at all since obviously Klingons were part of the conspiracy. Putting him back in, in my opinion, makes the plot needlessly convoluted and the resolution cheesy. It actually makes more logical sense to have a Klingon shooter than for a high ranking Starfleet official put on a rubber facemask and dress up as a Klingon.

Why they made these choices, I have no idea. I guess they edited them out for the usual reasons: they weren't vital to the story, losing them keeps the pace quick, the running time down and the plot less complicated. Once it got to video, apparently it no longer mattered and Nick Meyer added the scenes back in. And Trek fans love their extra scenes.

I find the video versions to be "eh." The theatrical, however, is tight and really quite good.

 

[7thsealord]

Was just thinking, so there are colonels in starfleet? He should be a commander. Is there another division of Starfleet that we don't know of? We know In Enterprise there was trhe Maco's that use the Army/AF/Marine rank structure, but i thought in TOS and beyond it was just Starfleet with there Navy style rank structure.

My guess is that Colonel West was one of the Marines that Star Fleet SHOULD have had but which we never saw or heard of.

Another possibility is that he was in some other organization (whatever military Earth had left that was not Star Fleet?), and had been "loaned" to Star Fleet. That might explain the non-SF rank combined with the SF uniform.

Basically, a little like "Major" Kira in DS9. Yeah, I know she didn't wear the uniform, but she was in the chain of command with authority to command Star Fleet units and personnel, and was subject to (most of?) their regulations. Despite her most definitely NOT being Star Fleet and (early on) quite ready to bust the head of anyone suggesting otherwise.

 

[Timo]

It would have been nice if the costuming department had actually created a Colonel rank identifier for the character. Now, it seems West is masquerading as a Rear Admiral, a rank way above Colonel in today's schemes... (Although if he's some sort of a covert ops specialist, he probably loves disguise the way others might love drag!)

Yeah, I get it that Colonel West reminds us of Oliver North. But the joke could have been played with "Admiral West" just as well...

Oh, well. We always have the fallback position that this Rear Admiral was just named Cornell-West.

IMHO the idea that Starfleet frames the Klingons for murder is a welcome addition to the overall plot. Without this bit, we might be left thinking that the Starfleet conspirators weren't all that bad after all, that Cartwright never did anything really wrong, and that Valeris was the sole rotten apple in the UFP basket. And it mirrors the Klingons framing Starfleet for the murder of Gorkon.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

I think in terms of story the original cut works better,

 

[Sindatur]

Regarding Rene Auberjonois' name pronounciation, isn't it pronounced exactly like it's spelled?

Oh-Ber-zho-nwah?

 

[MacLeod]

^In answer to that how to you pronounce Tomato?

 

[Data Holmes]

It would have been nice if the costuming department had actually created a Colonel rank identifier for the character. Now, it seems West is masquerading as a Rear Admiral, a rank way above Colonel in today's schemes... (Although if he's some sort of a covert ops specialist, he probably loves disguise the way others might love drag!)

Yeah, I get it that Colonel West reminds us of Oliver North. But the joke could have been played with "Admiral West" just as well...

Oh, well. We always have the fallback position that this Rear Admiral was just named Cornell-West.

IMHO the idea that Starfleet frames the Klingons for murder is a welcome addition to the overall plot. Without this bit, we might be left thinking that the Starfleet conspirators weren't all that bad after all, that Cartwright never did anything really wrong, and that Valeris was the sole rotten apple in the UFP basket. And it mirrors the Klingons framing Starfleet for the murder of Gorkon.

Timo Saloniemi

Unless, Starfleet was going with a more "royal navy" feel. Then the chart may look like this:

Captain - colonel
Commodore - brigadier
Rear adm. - colonel-commandant
Vice admiral - commandant

 

[GemHaters]

Regarding Rene Auberjonois' name pronounciation, isn't it pronounced exactly like it's spelled?

Oh-Ber-zho-nwah?

Correct. Well, it's more Awe-Ber-zho-nwah, but yeah, you got it...