Does anyone find Star Trek II-V very (aesthetically) dated?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Commander Kielbasa, Apr 12, 2018.

  1. Lance Warren Baylis

    Lance Warren Baylis Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    What else are they supposed to do honestly? ;) Every Trek looks like the time it was made in, not the time it is set in. Even DS9 and Voyager arguably have shades of their 90s production running through, though DS maybe slightly less obviously due to its alien setting, and ENT far from looking suitably futuristic now looks like what the future looked like at the turn of the 2000s. I feel confident that Discovery and the Abrams movies will likewise look stupidly "of their time" to future generations. That's pretty unavoidable.

    No-one ever mentions it, but the OT Star Wars movies reek of 1977 - 1983. Whether its screen graphics or set designs or hairstyles. Somehow or other, that never gets called out like Kirk's T.J. Curly does :D
     
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  2. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    I too find the maroon costumes at least as dated as TMP's. In fact I wrote that very thing a couple years ago:

    As far as being dated, I personally find the WOK uniforms look at least as dated as TMP's. They fit the new decade's fashion ideals of emphasizing social status and affluence. This was the year after Ronald Reagan brought the morning coat back to the inauguration and white tie and tails to the inaugural ball, the pomp and opulence of the Charles-Diana wedding, and the premiere of Dynasty on TV with its never-ending parade of formal wear and jewels.

    The WOK fabric and colors were rich looking, the style more formal. The uniforms were covered with contrasting stripes, straps, buckles and general eye-candy. The insignia became more like jewelry. Class distinctions were emphasized with completely different uniforms for enlisted personnel. Working in shirtsleeves was apparently not the thing for officers. The field jacket with its huge sweater-like collar may be the single most cluttered item of wardrobe in all Trek. It's all very high Eighties to me.
    Fashion standards come and go, but conceptually TMP's wardrobe was much stronger, with more and less formal, short sleeve and long sleeve, protective and specialized-duty variations. It also looks like a reasonable evolution or adaptation from TOS. I'm not a fan of the WOK wardrobe, but the only thing I find really unforgivable is the radical officer-enlisted differentiation.
     
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  3. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Commodore Commodore

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    The funny thing is Kirk's hair in the movies is closer to what William Shatner's natural hair was like. He has naturally wavy hair that was straightened* and brightened early in his Hollywood Career. Toward the end of the '70s he became more secure.

    * I also have wavy hair that I straighten, so I sympathize with him.
     
  4. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Fleet Captain

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    My main issue with the crimson uniforms is that ranks are not as easily read. On the NX-era, TOS and TNG uniforms it was pretty easy. Even DSC era uniforms you just have to stare really hard at the badge. The colors on the TMP era uniforms seemed pretty washed out to me.
     
  5. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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  6. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

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    he looked completely different with the wavy dark hair to the straight quiff of the series. so much so I thought it was a different actor! (I was a kid what did I know about anything).. although in the 3rd season his hair is getting thicker/darker/wavy almost movie style
     
  7. Lance Warren Baylis

    Lance Warren Baylis Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    On the whole I agree. I appreciate the visual look, the grand theatricality of them, but they're by far the least realustic and practical uniforms in the canon. They don't look like something actual personnel on a 23rd century starship would wear, even though they look very swish. They'r just too 18th century naval for me to believe in them.
     
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  8. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Since a lot of the stuff they've been selling the last couple years at Forever 21 and H&M looks like it came straight out of the 1980s, these movies look just fine.

    But I much prefer the sleek 1960s modernist aesthetic of TOS. I would have loved to see a big-budget cinematic version of that.

    Kor
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  9. CT0760

    CT0760 Ensign Red Shirt

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    lol, I just try not to think of such things
     
  10. Jadeb

    Jadeb Captain Captain

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    They fit perfectly with the movie they were created for, but I can't imagine Starfleet crews wearing them for TOS-style adventures. Fine for dealing with Melville-quoting madmen while sorting out your midlife crisis, but not so great for daily life on a starship.

    Similarly, I can't imagine anyone wanting to wear the original TNG uniforms for their workday. They're very much costumes, maybe moreso than anything before or since.

    The trends in clothing in the last 50 years have really vindicated TOS' prediction of a pajama-clad tomorrow.
     
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  11. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, there is no way to say what looks "right" for the future. I have posted these images a few times over the years. They are the exact same type of group, US admirals and staff, about 80 years apart. If they could see the photo, I doubt the Civil War group would have even the vaguest idea of what the WW2 group even was.

    naval_staffs_cw_ww2.png
     
  12. Lance Warren Baylis

    Lance Warren Baylis Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    ^ I'm persuaded by this argument, but I'd probably need an in-universe explanation (like a remilitarized Starfleet) to fully buy it. ;)

    Mind you, civil war uniforms or 18th century British Navy duds were essentially designed to be theatrical. As long as the movie era uniforms are likewise intended to, as it were, *project* a certain image then they can be struck off as a moment in time from which Starfleet eventually moved on.

    The choice to return to the 'classic' 23rd century primary colors in the 24th century then feels again like a very calculated PR move on Starfleet's part. :D
     
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  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    That was a random old USS Franklin uniform they found lying around, since he'd bled all over his regular uni. Scotty also nicked the Captain's leather jacket.

    Weirdly, they made the 100-year-old Franklin unis look a lot like the modern Yorktown unis, which caused a bit of confusion.
     
  14. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Now show Wilma Deering in the exact same pose.
     
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  15. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Oh I quite agree, you don't go from TOS/TMP to TWOK without some kind of major... transition? If not a revolution, really. My point is that the "pajamas" complaints don't really hold up. One era's pajamas/working/casual wear is what another era wears to weddings and funerals, from what I've observed!

    Full dress uniforms, yes, but the standard American Civil War officer's frock coat was basically a militarized version of what a civilian gentleman would wear, and by the end of the war US Army and Navy officers were both wearing uniforms adapted from the civilian sack suit, which was sporting or leisure wear at the time (one can be seen on the right in the CW photo in post 51).
     
  16. Steven P Bastien

    Steven P Bastien Commander Red Shirt

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    Wow, that's a lame attempt, but at least they tried to give an explanation. I guess in the future medical professionals will choose to have only one solution to every problem. They will view us as barbarians for having multiple alternative treatments to various ailments. :)

    I like Laura Cynthia Chambers explanation. Some people do hold out on using modern technology. For example, I know people that still do not use smartphones, or even any type of cell phone. I can envision Kirk dealing with the poor vision for many years, but eventually giving in and getting treatment. Star Trek IV would be at a time before he gives in.
     
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  17. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Commodore Commodore

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    It is the easiest and most painless solution to the problem. Other solutions require a specialist (which McCoy is not, and while he's willing to do other things he doesn't specialise in, this is not a life or death emergency at the moment) who is not available to Kirk right now, or whom he is not willing to be treated by. Stubborn old Kirk. In any case, wearing glasses is not a barbaric medieval medical treatment, unlike drilling Chekov's skull open.

    Maybe Kirk has a xeno eye condition that doesn't respond to modern vision correction cures, but oddly enough, can be mitigated with old-style glasses (or perhaps the glass has been replaced with a more modern material/shape of lens)
     
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  18. Jonesy

    Jonesy Commodore Commodore

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    I find them all dated in one sense or another. However, the OP left out TMP, which I think may be one of the most 'dated' of all of the movies. It's so very very obviously late 70's - McCoy's chest hair and medallion is only the tip of the iceberg.
     
  19. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Bones' arrival is the most obviously late 70s moment of TMP, but no more contemporary to the film's time than David Marcus with his preppie sweater over the shoulders. :)
     
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  20. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What? Just because the cast looks like they stepped out of a Discotheque ( not to mention Uhura's afro ;) )?
     
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