Doctor Who & Blake's 7 - the same universe?

[EJA]

I know there's been a lot of fan speculation over the decades that DW and Terry Nation's dark sci-fi series Blake's 7 both take place in the same universe. In Chris Boucher's DW novel "Corpse Marker", the sequel to his DW television serial "The Robots of Death", he uses the character of Carnell from the B7 episode "Weapon", and in his Kaldor City audio stories, he uses both Carnell and the Fendahl from DW "Image of the Fendahl."

But just how compatible are DW and B7? After analysing both series, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't really plausible that they were the same, as there were too many differences; for example in B7, the teleportation device on the Liberator was beyond the Federation's technology, but DW "Revenge of the Cybermen", set circa the 25th-30th century, had a space station with a functional teleporter. I did theorise that perhaps the Fourth Doctor and Leela had crossed over into a parallel universe for their stories involving B7 characters, but then the presense of the Fendahl in Kaldor City suggests otherwise.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

In the Doctor Who universe, there's some kind of human empire or federation or commonwealth that seems to last for a very very long time, and every time we see what it's like, it seems to be completely different. So I guess anything is possible.

 

[Starkers]

Well given that Blakes 7 isn't set in a determinable time frame it isn't beyond the realms of possibility for B7 to be much further in the future than Revenge, and technology can be lost/forgotten in the mean time. To be honest as well Who contradicts itself a lot in terms of human development.

I don't see any reason why they can't co-exist, but there's no reason they have to either.

Although that Bayban the Butcher guys looks suspiciously familiar...

 

[Tom]

Avon was in Timelash. LOL

 

[ClayinCA]

Avon was in Timelash. LOL

And in "Doctor Who and the Silurians." And for that matter, the Sixth Doctor (or was that Commander Maxil of the Gallifreyan Chancellory Guard?) showed up in Blake's 7's "City at the Edge of the World."

 

[diankra]

The big problem with reconciling the two series is that in Who aliens, and non-humanoid aliens, are common.
In Blake's 7 there's very few - even humanoid aliens are a rarity to judge by Avon's initial reaction to Cally. So to fit Blake anywhere into the Who universe, you have to explain where all the aliens went...

 

[Chaos Descending]

In the Doctor Who universe, there's some kind of human empire or federation or commonwealth that seems to last for a very very long time, and every time we see what it's like, it seems to be completely different. So I guess anything is possible.

If visitors from space were to come to Earth in 500 BC, 500 AD and 1500 AD, they would see lots of differences in the dominant empires at those times as well. I see no reason why the future would be different.

 

[Starkers]

Avon was in Timelash. LOL

And in "Doctor Who and the Silurians." And for that matter, the Sixth Doctor (or was that Commander Maxil of the Gallifreyan Chancellory Guard?) showed up in Blake's 7's "City at the Edge of the World."

As Bayban the Butcher in fact

 

[diankra]

Yeah, but actors appearing in both series in different roles isn't really relevant to whether they can be in the same continuity - unless you're going to follow it through and say that Avon was once a UNIT captain who got killed before ending up as the Borad's Maylin, and Vila lived on Pluto for a while, where he called himself Goudry (and Blake's partner in their first rebellion also commanded Snowcap Base during the 1986 Cyberman invasion).

The major exception to this being that the Carnell in Corpse Marker and the subsequent Kaldor CDs has to be the one Scott Frederick played in B7: Weapon, and that Paul Darrow's Kaldor city character Iago is implied throughout to be someone on the run from the same society as Carnell, who's using a false name...

 

[Candlelight]

I know there's been a lot of fan speculation over the decades that DW and Terry Nation's dark sci-fi series Blake's 7 both take place in the same universe. In Chris Boucher's DW novel "Corpse Marker", the sequel to his DW television serial "The Robots of Death", he uses the character of Carnell from the B7 episode "Weapon", and in his Kaldor City audio stories, he uses both Carnell and the Fendahl from DW "Image of the Fendahl."

But just how compatible are DW and B7? After analysing both series, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't really plausible that they were the same, as there were too many differences; for example in B7, the teleportation device on the Liberator was beyond the Federation's technology, but DW "Revenge of the Cybermen", set circa the 25th-30th century, had a space station with a functional teleporter. I did theorise that perhaps the Fourth Doctor and Leela had crossed over into a parallel universe for their stories involving B7 characters, but then the presense of the Fendahl in Kaldor City suggests otherwise.

Terry Nation wanted the Andromeda Aliens in "Star One" to turn out to be Daleks, but was apparently vetoed by the BBC.

Oh and a Sea Devil appears in "Rescue".

 

[diankra]

Oh and a Sea Devil appears in "Rescue".

Which immensely annoyed Who producer John Nathan Turner at the time.
Someone's wearing half of Omega's costume at the slave auction in Assassin too.
But the worst prop/costume cross-over has to be a certain spaceship control panel with a big red button that appears in B7: Hostage. Unfortunately, it had also appeared in the previous four weeks of The Armageddon Factor, where due to a time loop there were repeated close-ups of someone reaching for that firing button, so it was by then very very familiar...

 

[EJA]

The big problem with reconciling the two series is that in Who aliens, and non-humanoid aliens, are common.
In Blake's 7 there's very few - even humanoid aliens are a rarity to judge by Avon's initial reaction to Cally. So to fit Blake anywhere into the Who universe, you have to explain where all the aliens went...

Yes, I was wondering that a little myself. If the two universes are the same, then how come in B7 you never see or hear of the Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, Draconians, Judoon, etc, etc, etc? The galaxy is big, but it isn't that big; it stands to reason that you'd have to run into some of them at some point.

 

[EJA]

Also of interest, military vessels in the B7 Federation have cybernetically enhanced humans serving on them. If it is the Whoniverse, wouldn't humans be wary of doing such a thing, knowing of the Cybermen?

 

[Starkers]

Mutoids are very different from Cybermen though.

I've always thought the Mutoids were very interesting on B7 and not used nearly enough.

 

[Starkers]

Yeah, but actors appearing in both series in different roles isn't really relevant to whether they can be in the same continuity - unless you're going to follow it through and say that Avon was once a UNIT captain who got killed before ending up as the Borad's Maylin, and Vila lived on Pluto for a while, where he called himself Goudry (and Blake's partner in their first rebellion also commanded Snowcap Base during the 1986 Cyberman invasion).

Noty to mention actors within the same series; I mean that Soolin does look suspiciously like a mutoid

 

[Lonemagpie]

Terry Nation wanted the Andromeda Aliens in "Star One" to turn out to be Daleks, but was apparently vetoed by the BBC.

It wasn't vetoed, it was just an idea that didn't get very far before Nation moved to the US and made himself (and the Daleks, whom he hoped to launch in their own US series) unavailable for the episode.

David Maloney says they discussed it over lunch during planning for the season, but Chris Boucher says that no plans got as far as reaching his desk on paper. I had conversations with both of them about this, a few years back.

Oh and a Sea Devil appears in "Rescue".

A Sea Devil head on an Axon/Krynoid bodysuit!

 

[Lonemagpie]

Oh and a Sea Devil appears in "Rescue".

Which immensely annoyed Who producer John Nathan Turner at the time.
Someone's wearing half of Omega's costume at the slave auction in Assassin too.
But the worst prop/costume cross-over has to be a certain spaceship control panel with a big red button that appears in B7: Hostage. Unfortunately, it had also appeared in the previous four weeks of The Armageddon Factor, where due to a time loop there were repeated close-ups of someone reaching for that firing button, so it was by then very very familiar...

But JNT got revenge during season 21, when the Federation trooper helmets show up in Frontios, and then a shedload of B7 season 4 costumes - including Vila's outfit - turn up in Resurrection of the Daleks.

Back in the first season, Avon used to wear a Time Lord costume from The Three Doctors as well...

 

[EJA]

The actress who played Servalan played Chessene in "The Two Doctors." And didn't the guy who played Travis II also appear in "The Robots of Death"? I've only seen a bit of that story, so I'm not sure.

If the B7 and DW universes are the same, I think we have to come up with an explanation for where all of DW's alien civilizations disappeared to in B7.

 

[marillion]

What about a crossover with DW that serves as a pilot of sorts.. Introduce a nu-B7 that would spin off into their own show ala Torchwood or SJA (of course the later used Lis as the lead character again, as it should have been).

 

[diankra]

Terry Nation wanted the Andromeda Aliens in "Star One" to turn out to be Daleks, but was apparently vetoed by the BBC.

It wasn't vetoed, it was just an idea that didn't get very far before Nation moved to the US and made himself (and the Daleks, whom he hoped to launch in their own US series) unavailable for the episode.

David Maloney says they discussed it over lunch during planning for the season, but Chris Boucher says that no plans got as far as reaching his desk on paper. I had conversations with both of them about this, a few years back.

As far as I recall it, Chris's account is pretty much 'It seemed a great idea in the pub over lunch, and then we got back to the office and sobered up.'