On his blog Daren discusses the compromised ST:TMP DE officer's lounge scene, why the ship "crabs", and what they wanted to do.
Dochterman on the ST:TMP DE
- Thread starter Maurice
- Start date
Cool. Even if they couldn't go as far as they wanted to, the TMP refit is still the finest and, to me, most realistic of the ships. Admittedly, the way touch screen tech has exploded onto the scene in the last few years has shown us that the consoles themselves would probably look more like NuTrek consoles but I absolutely love the attention to detail that went into the TMP ship.
Because they could have dropped a dozen such shots and not been able to accomodate this?
I've seen 4 different versions, including the DE (which I saw for the first time today). I can safely say that the DE is the definitive edition of the movie. The only two things I disliked about it was the red alert klaxon replacement (the original is much better IMO) and the inclusion of the warp nacelle outside the officers lounge window.
They might've been able to fix the stars. Without knowing more about the "compounded problems" he mentions, I can't tell you how intractable that might've been. As for expanding out of the existing window, they do that, they've committed to cutting Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the rest of the foreground out of the picture with no bluescreen to help them for a scene that's, what? Five minutes? Something like seven thousand frames of footage? That's roughly six thousand, nine hundred ninety-nine more frames than they had to dicker with to do the TOS shuttle, since it was in a shot with a still camera in a part of the frame with nothing in the foreground.
^Yeah, it would've been awesome to do what Dochterman wanted, and like he said, it would be more feasible today, but at the time the DE was made, it would've been extremely complicated, time-consuming, and expensive to fix that shot.
I just watched TMP again today, the DE of course, and I couldn't watch that scene without comparing it to the picture Dochterman posted. It would've been nice if they could've done it that way, but they couldn't.
I just watched TMP again today, the DE of course, and I couldn't watch that scene without comparing it to the picture Dochterman posted. It would've been nice if they could've done it that way, but they couldn't.
I have a photo that is basically the same...I could use it, but that would be even more confusing!Okay, this is a complete non-sequitur, but seeing Christopher's and Alrik's avatars back-to-back is making me do too many double takes!
I have a photo that is basically the same...I could use it, but that would be even more confusing!Okay, this is a complete non-sequitur, but seeing Christopher's and Alrik's avatars back-to-back is making me do too many double takes!
Maybe we should all try and take a similar shot and post it as an avatar. It beats the hell out of ponies...
My trip to the Smithsonian in January 1992 was so frustrating because the Enterprise model was off-display, being readied for a big exhibit the next September.
When I was there in January 1984, it was suspended from the ceiling, but near a stairwell, so lots of great angles were available:
3D USS Enterprise at Smithsonian by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
My trip to the Smithsonian in January 1992 was so frustrating because the Enterprise model was off-display, being readied for a big exhibit the next September.
When I was there in January 1984, it was suspended from the ceiling, but near a stairwell, so lots of great angles were available:
3D USS Enterprise at Smithsonian by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
Thanks, Therin. I have lived in or near DC for almost my entire life, so I've seen the E numerous times over the years at the Air and Space. Your picture reminded me how it looked before the botched "refurbishing" they did that makes it almost unrecognizable as the same model. It can now be seen in the lower level gift shop. It is nicer to see it at closer range and closer to ground level, but the new paint job is distracting to me.
Doug
Now what is the electric stream going between the nacelles in this concept?
I agree that the alert klaxon is better in the original. I also prefer the original male computer voice being present, which I thought sounded bad-ass, and the computer translator voice on the Epsilon IX station.
Certain changes in the DE are improvements but they are all minor.
I agree that the alert klaxon is better in the original. I also prefer the original male computer voice being present, which I thought sounded bad-ass, and the computer translator voice on the Epsilon IX station.
Certain changes in the DE are improvements but they are all minor.
I can't remember the specifics, but that was going to be part of the effect when the ship was at warp. They couldn't get it to work, so they ended up omitting it (except for the the inner grills only glowing blue while at warp speed, a detail I'm glad to see more-or-less revived in the JJPrise. Seems more sensible than the warp engines always glowing whether they're on or off).
My trip to the Smithsonian in January 1992 was so frustrating because the Enterprise model was off-display, being readied for a big exhibit the next September.
When I was there in January 1984, it was suspended from the ceiling, but near a stairwell, so lots of great angles were available:
3D USS Enterprise at Smithsonian by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
Thanks, Therin. I have lived in or near DC for almost my entire life, so I've seen the E numerous times over the years at the Air and Space. Your picture reminded me how it looked before the botched "refurbishing" they did that makes it almost unrecognizable as the same model. It can now be seen in the lower level gift shop. It is nicer to see it at closer range and closer to ground level, but the new paint job is distracting to me.
Doug
I found the completely unresearched and inaccurate paint job and rebuilt - not "restored" condition in which the model was exhibited at NASM from the beginning up until 1992 a great deal more distressing and distracting than the fact that Ed painted the weathering on way too heavily when he refurbished it otherwise to something approximating the state in which it was used on the TV series.
All the time I was building CG models for Exeter, any time I had a question about the TOS model I'd just drive a couple of miles to NASM and look at it.
Frankly, the only problem that I have with the original theatrical cut is in the editing, or lack thereof. They simply ran out of time, so the film never got the proper scrutinizing in the editing room that it normally would have to tighten up the pacing, to take out extraneous material, etc.
But the sound mix I never had a problem with. In fact, I far prefer the sound mix of the theatrical cut to that of the DE. Yes, I know it was rushed too and they would have done it differently if they'd had time. But, as Nick Meyer says, "art thrives on restrictions." Because they didn't have time to do all the sound work they wanted, Jerry Goldsmith was told his score would have to take the place of sound effects in many places, and he did it absolutely brilliantly.
And tinkering with the visual effects baffles me. The visual effects were the one area of the film that was universally PRAISED. Why go back and mess with them? Sure, there were some minor things that didn't get done -- like having a conversation in front of a window and it just being black outside instead of the proper effect. But those things were minor. And, heck, the one thing you could argue actually looked BAD in the original -- the V'Ger probe on the bridge -- they left alone in the DE.
So, yes, the editing is better on the DE. But, otherwise, I think all the tinkering is to its detriment.
That's just part of the problem, but I'll elaborate on that below.
I find the new sound mix to be far better. What was in the theatrical cut was a temp track. It was rather anemic and it had some serious editing problems, like the sound effect of V'Ger's second plasma bolt continuing for something like 20 seconds after the bolt vanished. And many of the audio elements in the DE's final soundtrack were actually recorded for TMP in '79; they just never got cut together properly until the DE.
They didn't "mess with them." They completed them according to the original storyboards and notes. As I said, the problems with the theatrical edition were more than editing problems -- a lot of FX shots were unfinished or scaled back due to the rush to make the release date. The shots that were added were shots that were intended to be in the original film but got left out or compromised -- like a shuttle approach shot to Starfleet HQ that was subbed in the theatrical cut by a long, static close-up on the Starfleet seal on the floor. A few shots were changed, but mainly to correct mistakes. The night-sky matte painting on Vulcan with the huge moon or planet in the sky (contradicting "The Man Trap"'s "Vulcan has no moon") was replaced with a daytime matte painting based on the original concept painting that somehow got replaced with the night scene, and reflecting the actual lighting of the scene as shot (it's ridiculous in the theatrical cut where it's supposed to be night but you can see Spock shielding his eyes from the sun). A very inaccurate matte painting of the upper hull of the Enterprise was replaced with an accurate CG model. And the shot of V'Ger's "island" with the hex cells already in place was replaced with the originally planned version where the hex cells assembled gradually in response to the Enterprise's approach.
Just about the only change I can think of that wasn't based directly on the 1979 storyboards and concept art was the addition of the open area to the right of the HQ docking bay scene, and the TOS-style shuttlecraft taking off from it. All the rest was completing shots that were designed in '79 but never finished. The people who did the DE approached it as a film restoration project, and did everything they could to make the new shots look the way they would have if they'd been completed as planned using 1979 technology.
The artistic representations of San Francisco were also not derived from the storyboards; they incorporated many nostalgic architectural styles and retro elements from the mid-20th century, such as "Googie," that were favorites of the folks working on the DE rather than the futurism of the original designers for the movie (like Syd Mead).
Similar threads
