Do you think the 24th century earth has junkies and addicts?

[Spot261]

In the past, sick people were considered morally corrupt

You don't have to look all that hard to find people who still think this way. Isn't humanity splendid?

Yes but we are talking about junkies and addicts, not social drinking. No one on 24th Century Earth needs to depend on drugs to make their life tolerable so there is no reason to develop a dependency.

I'm really not sure it's that simple, that drug abuse and dependency can be reduced to such a binary phenomena. Nor am I sure that people in the 24th century are quite so uniformly content, regardless of circumstances. There is still death, loss, warfare, criminality. People still get divorced, fight, experience failure and despair. They still suffer mental health problems, they are still born with addictive personalities, they still become self destructive and suicidal.

Trek isn't religious(that much) but there are still hints of a remaining metaphysical.

With a couple of exceptions trek is almost uniformly secular, lambasting religion on a frequent basis

 

[Voth commando1]

You don't have to look all that hard to find people who still think this way. Isn't humanity splendid?



I'm really not sure it's that simple, that drug abuse and dependency can be reduced to such a binary phenomena. Nor am I sure that people in the 24th century are quite so uniformly content, regardless of circumstances. There is still death, loss, warfare, criminality. People still get divorced, fight, experience failure and despair. They still suffer mental health problems, they are still born with addictive personalities, they still become self destructive and suicidal.



With a couple of exceptions trek is almost uniformly secular, lambasting religion on a frequent basis

That's what I just said.

 

[Herbert]

Yes but we are talking about junkies and addicts, not social drinking. No one on 24th Century Earth needs to depend on drugs to make their life tolerable so there is no reason to develop a dependency.

What's that line you hear all the time? "No one starts out thinking they will become an addict" or something to that effect. People experiment. Happy people, sad people, bored people. And some of those will become junkies, even if they think it can't or won't happen to them.

 

[Nyotarules]

One thing at a time. These days interracial couples are far more common and there's an anti-body-shaming movement. Again, I think that people who are raised to only see their own race as attractive or regard the superficial above the whole are suffering from delusional thinking.

Only in certain areas of the world. e.g Western Europe, the Americas, maybe Australasia. Where the indigenous population is in decline or no longer around. Mass global migration is still fairly new for our era and within our lifetime. So I don't consider homogeneous nations as maliciously racist per se, just still waiting to catch up. If you live in a nation where 99.99% of the population looks like you, anyone else will stand out. (I went to China for two months, had a great time and was treated like an anomaly. Very friendly folks, not so sure if they would be still friendly if I turned up with one of their sons as a potential Mrs Chang. I doubt it).
If the Star Trek of Earth is to be believed the standard of living is spread across the board, all over the Sol system. With molecular transportation, global migration might be as common as moving across town, nations that have almost 99% homogeneity now, should be a thing of the past. Under those cultural circumstances relationships between different human races should be pretty common, nothing to stare at and no cultural stigma attached. It would be relationships between humans and other species that would get the side eye, well at least for the first 100 years or so of the Federation.
Somewhere in 23rd century South Africa, Caucasian parents to daughter - 'Why can't you bring home a nice African girl rather than that Tellarite pig face woman?'

 

[Gary7]

You don't have to look all that hard to find people who still think this way. Isn't humanity splendid?

I'm fully convinced that everyone has the capacity to have high moral standards and a willing desire to be a peaceful, constructive member of society. What usually hinders that is poor upbringing and insufficient mentoring and/or counseling. Just look at the statistics on homes where parents have divorced, households where both parents work long hours, or single parent households.

The "nuclear" family has become a minority... probably around the start of the 21st century. This does not bode well. It's tough enough to grow up with all of the challenges we're faced in these societies, and now with the chaos of the Internet at hand it has increased substantially. While I thoroughly enjoy the technology we've achieved recently, I would NOT want to be a millennial. We've got some very tough years ahead. Things are becoming very tenuous. It won't take much to topple a 1st world nation. Just screw up the environment, lower the food & water supply, and then let disease run rampant. You'll see.

 

[Vger23]

I haven't read this whole thread- so forgive me if this thought has been discussed:

I'd say dependency on chemicals or drugs would have faded to almost non-existence in the 24th century depicted in Trek, but there would likely be other kinds of addictions, most likely technology-based (holodiction, are addiction, etc).

 

[Tenacity]

Trek isn't religious(that much) but there are still hints of a remaining metaphysical.

With a couple of exceptions trek is almost uniformly secular, lambasting religion on a frequent basis

Our group of heroes in TOS were openly religious on occasion, even Picard believes in some form of afterlife. I can't remember Vulcan religion being "lambasted."

Still don't have a complete grip on Deanna Troi's belief in destiny.

 

[Voth commando1]

Riker also at least gives some respect to the idea of a "cosmic plan." Sisko embraces the prophets and Janeway hard core atheist she probably is at the end of Sacred Ground is clearly dissatisfied with a scientific explanation for her and Kes experiences.

Archer of course gets Surak's katra briefly.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Riker also at least gives some respect to the idea of a "cosmic plan."

Which came off totally wrong when you think about it. They were discussing whether to save the life of a little alien girl (they could have done it easily without any consequences) but kept getting hung up on the Prime Directive.

That's where they start wondering if the alien girl's people were meant to die, if it was part of a cosmic plan. It should have been more of a humanitarian/legal issue, and they brought up ideas like fate and destiny, without any of the spiritual compassion.

Trek may mention some vague religious beliefs, but treat it as a social side activity, nothing that ever contributed to freeing humanity from it's problems.

Only in certain areas of the world. e.g Western Europe, the Americas, maybe Australasia. Where the indigenous population is in decline or no longer around. Mass global migration is still fairly new for our era and within our lifetime. So I don't consider homogeneous nations as maliciously racist per se, just still waiting to catch up. If you live in a nation where 99.99% of the population looks like you, anyone else will stand out. (I went to China for two months, had a great time and was treated like an anomaly. Very friendly folks, not so sure if they would be still friendly if I turned up with one of their sons as a potential Mrs Chang. I doubt it).
If the Star Trek of Earth is to be believed the standard of living is spread across the board, all over the Sol system. With molecular transportation, global migration might be as common as moving across town, nations that have almost 99% homogeneity now, should be a thing of the past. Under those cultural circumstances relationships between different human races should be pretty common, nothing to stare at and no cultural stigma attached. It would be relationships between humans and other species that would get the side eye, well at least for the first 100 years or so of the Federation.
Somewhere in 23rd century South Africa, Caucasian parents to daughter - 'Why can't you bring home a nice African girl rather than that Tellarite pig face woman?'

It's one of humanity's worse failings. Which is why people get skeptical of how exactly solving it takes place in the Trek universe.

Even in-universe, stuff slips by. Case in point, Pen pals, the episode mentioned above.
Even Obrien referred to the little alien girl as "that", as in asking Data, "are you going to take THAT" with him as he left the transporter room.

 

[PrestigeWorldwide]

I'm reminded of TNG's Relics, when Scotty is sad because he's no longer useful and his first inclination to deal with that sadness is to go to Ten Forward and get absolutely hammered on whatever random alcohol he can get ahold of.

I would say that was probably not an example of responsible social drinking.

 

[Nyotarules]

Which came off totally wrong when you think about it. They were discussing whether to save the life of a little alien girl (they could have done it easily without any consequences) but kept getting hung up on the Prime Directive.

That's where they start wondering if the alien girl's people were meant to die, if it was part of a cosmic plan. It should have been more of a humanitarian/legal issue, and they brought up ideas like fate and destiny, without any of the spiritual compassion.

Trek may mention some vague religious beliefs, but treat it as a social side activity, nothing that ever contributed to freeing humanity from it's problems.




It's one of humanity's worse failings. Which is why people get skeptical of how exactly solving it takes place in the Trek universe.

Even in-universe, stuff slips by. Case in point, Pen pals, the episode mentioned above.
Even Obrien referred to the little alien girl as "that", as in asking Data, "are you going to take THAT" with him as he left the transporter room.

Humanity never gets over racism it just transfers prejudice to the blue and green aliens. Imagine bringing Worf home for tea even after 70 years of peace with the Klingons. Its been 70 years of peace with Germany and Japan and some British folks still hate them, granted its a generational thing. Once the generation over 80 years old have passed on that attitude might die.
There's an irrational inner cave person in all of us, determined to fear 'the other'.

 

[Voth commando1]

Which came off totally wrong when you think about it. They were discussing whether to save the life of a little alien girl (they could have done it easily without any consequences) but kept getting hung up on the Prime Directive.

That's where they start wondering if the alien girl's people were meant to die, if it was part of a cosmic plan. It should have been more of a humanitarian/legal issue, and they brought up ideas like fate and destiny, without any of the spiritual compassion.

Trek may mention some vague religious beliefs, but treat it as a social side activity, nothing that ever contributed to freeing humanity from it's problems.




It's one of humanity's worse failings. Which is why people get skeptical of how exactly solving it takes place in the Trek universe.

Even in-universe, stuff slips by. Case in point, Pen pals, the episode mentioned above.
Even Obrien referred to the little alien girl as "that", as in asking Data, "are you going to take THAT" with him as he left the transporter room.

It's not a matter of compassion-it's a matter of a higher power and human agency with regards to that. Religion does not equal compassion.

For all the examples I pointed out-seems TNG/DS9/VOY humanity is no longer that religious no, but some inkling still exists of a world beyond tricorders and computer analyses.

 

[1001001]

I'm reminded of TNG's Relics, when Scotty is sad because he's no longer useful and his first inclination to deal with that sadness is to go to Ten Forward and get absolutely hammered on whatever random alcohol he can get ahold of.

I would say that was probably not an example of responsible social drinking.

At least Picard joined him.

BTW: Great Username!

"Boats and Hos!"

 

[Arpy]

Humanity never gets over racism it just transfers prejudice to the blue and green aliens. Imagine bringing Worf home for tea even after 70 years of peace with the Klingons. Its been 70 years of peace with Germany and Japan and some British folks still hate them, granted its a generational thing. Once the generation over 80 years old have passed on that attitude might die.
There's an irrational inner cave person in all of us, determined to fear 'the other'.

Being aware of the behavior, I think we can be more self-aware and draw parallels from the prejudices of past generations to new ones that might arise for us. I like to think that, by Trek's time, that's long-been the habit of the overwhelming majority.

I don't think that prejudice is as unavoidable as it's made out. I think we're living in 1650 A.D., arguing whether or not slavery is unavoidable.

You don't have to look all that hard to find people who still think this way. Isn't humanity splendid?

Not nearly as many who used to. I like to think that by Trek's time, if it's Trek's time (and not most any other sci-fi future), whatever few there are are severe outliers. This is my hope, anyway.

 

[Spot261]

Our group of heroes in TOS were openly religious on occasion, even Picard believes in some form of afterlife. I can't remember Vulcan religion being "lambasted."

Still don't have a complete grip on Deanna Troi's belief in destiny.

I assume you're referring to "Bread and Circuses". I think that's been covered to death so many times it's barely worth touching on.

Whether Vulcans were ever actually shown to have a religion is debatable, they were shown to have a form of mysticism, a mysticism which is entirely based on the logical acceptance of something verifiable, not something accepted on faith. The katra is not analogous to our concept of a soul, one is objectively true and can be manipulated, the other is something that requires belief. Faith and belief in the unverifiable are parts of the defining criteria for religion.

As for "lambasting", yes it does exactly that on dozens of occasions. Every time we see a Godlike being who Kirk outwits, Picard reveals to be an advanced alien, Sisko traps in a particle field, Janeway gives sanctuary to, that's trek dissembling the idea of religion. GR was a humanist through and through for most of his life and trek was very much a vehicle for him expressing that.

 

[Tenacity]

GR was a humanist through and through for most of his life

Roddenberry was a whole lot of things over the course of his live, including in the sixties a Buddist, in the seventies a believer in The All, and towards the end of his a life a agnostic.

Many religious people (multiple religions) are humanists.

I assume you're referring to "Bread and Circuses". I think that's been covered to death so many times it's barely worth touching on.

Bread and Circuses is one example and goes to prove the point, but there's also Who Mourns, and Balance of Terror.

Whether Vulcans were ever actually shown to have a religion is debatable

Given the message T'Pel sent Tuvok in Hunters, it difficult not to see Vulcans as religious.

 

[Spot261]

Many religious people (multiple religions) are humanists.

From Wikipedia:

humanist movements are typically aligned with secularism, and today humanism typically refers to a non-theistic life stance centred on human agency and looking to science rather than revelation from a supernatural source to understand the world.

“We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes.”
― Gene Roddenberry

but there's also Who Mourns, and Balance of Terror.

It's easy to take one line from WMFA whilst missing the whole thematic point of the episode. It is one of several that reduce a "God" to something mortal, to being something that can be dealt with on human terms. This is something trek has done many times throughout the franchise, bringing the concept of "God" into the realms of human agency, making the point that humanity can and should make it's own decisions, that rationalism and reason should be trusted before the pronouncements of a deity or it's agents, which are typically shown to be either false or unworthy of worship.

Not sure what you mean about BoT, but I'm assuming you are referring to the wedding scene which takes place in a chapel on the ship. Such places are standard in modern times on naval vessels and in hospitals. Typically they are non denominational, being multi faith places for prayer, meditation, quiet reflection. The inclusion of such a place on the Ent is hardly an endorsement of religion. The portrayal of starfleet making provision for people who have their own faiths in no way invalidates the point the show is thematically atheist. I've not claimed no one in trek is religious, I have claimed that almost exclusively the show is made with an atheistic message, that each and every time it deals with religion directly it does so in a way which validates human reason over blind faith, placed rational discourse and scientific curiosity over the ignorance of accepting dogma.

Given the message T'Pel sent Tuvok in Hunters, it difficult not to see Vulcans as religious. Add on mentions of shrines, temples, monasteries.

Again religion is defined by faith in the unknowable. Vulcans are psychic beings with an objectively observable katra. A philosophy is not a religion if it based on something you know to be true. Vulcan "prayers" and meditation actually work.

 

[El Amigo Carlos]

Not sure. But there very well might be many junkies.
Everything is free and you have no worries about money, so if you can drug yourself and have no worry about money or your health, why not?
Unless replicators are made to no make drugs then it already becomes complicated.

 

[DeepSpaceYorks]

That's an interesting suggestion, replicating drugs.
'Tea, mushroom, hot'

 

[Tenacity]

A philosophy is not a religion if it based on something you know to be true.

Not even close, ymmv.

Vulcan "prayers" [snip] actually work.

In the case of the prayers said for Tuvok's safe return, yes.

Not sure what you mean about BoT, but I'm assuming you are referring to the wedding scene ...

In which Angela kneels in prayer and Janice Rand bows her head.

It's easy to take one line from WMFA whilst missing the whole thematic point of the episode.

The one line holds it's meaning, an recognition of the existence of monotheism by Kirk. At least among the group Kirk refers to as "we."

From Wikipedia:

There is a subdivision of general Humanism called secular humanism yes, but not all Humanists are secular.

From the Wikipedia entry on Secular humanism; while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience, and superstition.

But this (again) wouldn't be the Humanism of all humanists.

Not sure. But there very well might be many junkies.

While there likely is a treatment for drug use, the drug user might be a willing victim and wouldn't voluntarily seek treatment.