Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!!!!)

[Mage]

THIS TOPIC WILL HAVE SPOILERS FOR PLAGUES OF NIGHT/RAISE THE DAWN!!!!!!
IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THEM YET, MOVE ON!!!!

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What I was wondering..
Before Bajor became a member of the Federation, Quark was able to run his bar on DS9 because it was a Bajoran station, in Bajoran space. Afterwards, when Bajor became a member, Rom made Quark the Ferengi ambassador and his bar the embassy so Quark could still run a business on the station, something he couldn't do otherwise since it became a official Federation facility.

Now, with DS9 destroyed and the new station being a brand new, Starfleet designed facility, do you think they will create room for a new Quark's Bar, with the same special dispensation making it the Ferengi embassy so Quark can run his bar (and less then legal activities) their?? Or do you think the time he's spend on Bajor in a temporary facility will make him consider staying planetside??

 

[Paris]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

It wouldn't be DS9 without Quark's

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

It might be interesting to see Quark stay planetside. It takes two years for the replacement Deep Space Nine to be built, after all. In that time he'll surely have expanded his planetside business, attracted new regular customers and useful contacts, gotten his tendrils into whatever's going down in Wyntara Mas. He might not want to move again.

That said, the reason he set up shop temporarily in Wyntara Mas was because that's where his regular customers were at the time. He was in limbo, really (though I like how accepting he was of the situation; no moaning or complaining. Zen Quark is very appealing). It seems possible to me that he'll seek to follow the crew back to DS9 - although I guess if most of the station's civilians are staying on Bajor, moving on rather than waiting two years for a new station, he might consider his best opportunities to lie planetside. I can actually see many opportunities for Quark's on Bajor - the last remnant of, and finest tribute to, the original station! Come and see the business that served as the beating heart of DS9, and your gracious host, the man in the thick of the action! You owe it to Bajor to live its history! As we all know, opportunity plus instinct equals profit.

I suppose now that the Ferengi Alliance is in tight with the Federation as part of the expanded Khitomer Accords, Grand Nagus Rom could ask for a full-scale embassy on Bajor itself, so who knows if Quark would be interested? I don't see him letting the title of Ambassador slip away uncontested, anyway.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

It wouldn't be DS9 without Quark's

On the other hand...there's that.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Although in principle I agree with Paris' statement, Deranged Nasat makes some very good points.

But what I'm wondering, will a civilian be allowed on the station? The old station had them for shops and such, people could buy clothing, food, luxury items. The new station will be a true Federation/Starfleet installation, which should mean that everything will be provided by the Federation/Starfleet. Will civilions be allowed back as shopkeepers? And yes, Quark's was an embassy as well, but that role was only invented to keep Quark on the station. So right now, Starfleet might not was a bar on the station where people will actually have to PAY for their drinks, instead of getting them for free. And I doubt Starfleet will actually let Quark make his bar an embassy again so he is technically not on Federation soil and can charge for his drinks.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Yes, it's a Starfleet station, but that doesn't mean it'll be exactly like the generic model of a Starfleet station. That doesn't make sense. I mean, DS9 was technically a Starfleet station from the moment Bajor joined the Federation in 2376 to the moment of its destruction in 2383, nearly seven years, but it didn't have to conform to some rigid, uniform set of rules for how a station is run. Rather, it was tailored to the specific needs and conditions of the role it served in the Bajor system and in the larger region. The new station is meant to fill the same role that the previous station did. There's no reason to think they'd change its function just because they're replacing its physical structure.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Yes, it's a Starfleet station, but that doesn't mean it'll be exactly like the generic model of a Starfleet station. That doesn't make sense. I mean, DS9 was technically a Starfleet station from the moment Bajor joined the Federation in 2376 to the moment of its destruction in 2383, nearly seven years, but it didn't have to conform to some rigid, uniform set of rules for how a station is run. Rather, it was tailored to the specific needs and conditions of the role it served in the Bajor system and in the larger region. The new station is meant to fill the same role that the previous station did. There's no reason to think they'd change its function just because they're replacing its physical structure.

Agreed, but there is also no reason to suggest right now that things will be the same. And that's why I started this topic, to see what people thought.

 

[shanejayell]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Well, if you look at Starbase Vanguard, it had bars/shops and businesses just like DS9. And a new DS9 will need recreation facilities etc etc, so I don't see why they wouldn't want Quark's back.

Plus, NOG IS HELPING DESIGN IT. Duh. *lol*

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Agreed, but there is also no reason to suggest right now that things will be the same.

Of course there is. It's in the same location, it's explicitly meant to replace the old station, and aside from the closing of the wormhole it's in the same astropolitical context.

Think of it like a situation where the City Hall building burns down and the city builds a new one. Is there any reason to think that the city's administration would be run differently in the new building than it was in the old one? Or if your local airport tore down its old terminal and built a new one, would you expect a fundamental difference in the kind of business and activities conducted there? No, because it's still City Hall, it's still an airport terminal. It's just a new building serving the same purpose. Sure, there might be some upgrades in the efficiency of how things are run, some improvements in the structural design and layout, but there'd be no reason to expect a fundamental change in the types of activity that happen within it.

 

[DEWLine]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Yeah. The "shopping mall" component's likely to be expanded, with more space for more tenants - especially given some of the recent changes in the astropolitical context - and I don't see how anyone could rationalize abolishing it. The paying tenants - restaurants, shops, embassies and consulates, etc. - are helping to foot the bill for the place.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Agreed, but there is also no reason to suggest right now that things will be the same.

Of course there is. It's in the same location, it's explicitly meant to replace the old station, and aside from the closing of the wormhole it's in the same astropolitical context.

Think of it like a situation where the City Hall building burns down and the city builds a new one. Is there any reason to think that the city's administration would be run differently in the new building than it was in the old one? Or if your local airport tore down its old terminal and built a new one, would you expect a fundamental difference in the kind of business and activities conducted there? No, because it's still City Hall, it's still an airport terminal. It's just a new building serving the same purpose. Sure, there might be some upgrades in the efficiency of how things are run, some improvements in the structural design and layout, but there'd be no reason to expect a fundamental change in the types of activity that happen within it.

If the administration was changed, so might the rules regarding.

And yes, even though the old station was run for 7 years under the new administration, Starfleet might now decide that with a new station, some things should change regarding civilions on a military installation, especially with the cold war going on. And technically, with it being a Starfleet station, it IS a military installation.
Don't get me wrong Christopher, I agree with you. I'm just trying to look at it from all angles.

I had however, forgot about the civilian shops that shanejayell mentioned in Vanguard. But then again, Starfleet policy might have changed since the 110 odd years since Vangaurd ended.

Do we know of any specific civilian-run facilities on other Starfleet installations in the 24th century?? There was a bar on Jupiter station if I recall correctly...

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

^Again, it was already a Starfleet station for seven years. Don't confuse who built it with who runs it. If Starfleet didn't kick out the civilians during those seven years, there's no reason they'd do so now.

And really, we're talking about the same Starfleet that allowed civilians aboard its Galaxy-class ships. No reason they wouldn't have civilians on their space stations.

In fact, even the present-day US military has jobs for civilian personnel on its bases, though mainly for spouses of military personnel. So there's real-life precedent for it too.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

^Again, it was already a Starfleet station for seven years. Don't confuse who built it with who runs it. If Starfleet didn't kick out the civilians during those seven years, there's no reason they'd do so now.

And really, we're talking about the same Starfleet that allowed civilians aboard its Galaxy-class ships. No reason they wouldn't have civilians on their space stations.

In fact, even the present-day US military has jobs for civilian personnel on its bases, though mainly for spouses of military personnel. So there's real-life precedent for it too.

From 2369 to 2376, it was never a Starfleet facility. It was a Bajoran facility, under Bajoran law and regulations, run by Starfleet. When Bajor entered the Federation, it became a FULL Starfleet facility. Right before the actual signing, Bajor agreed that Quark's Bar would become the embassy to the Ferengi ambassador, namely Quark. Under those rules and regulations the station was signed over. Now, with a new station being built, Starfleet could decide to make a few adjustments.

I'm re-watching DS9 season 1 right now, and it's make quite clear that DS9 is technically a Bajoran installation, run by Starfleet. However, during the show that little technicallity is basicly forgotten.

 

[flandry84]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Guinan was a civilian as was Ben(?)from Lower decks.

Given the amount of change going on in the world of DS9 just now maybe a little continuity is needed by the crew,so I think Quark would have no bother securing a concession on a new station.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

From 2369 to 2376, it was never a Starfleet facility. It was a Bajoran facility, under Bajoran law and regulations, run by Starfleet.

I'm not talking about that. Why even bring it up? I'm talking about this:

When Bajor entered the Federation, it became a FULL Starfleet facility.

That happened in 2376. The station was destroyed in 2383. I'm talking about that 7-year period when, as you yourself acknowledge, it was a full Starfleet facility. There's no reason to think anything would change about that just because they replace the structure.

Right before the actual signing, Bajor agreed that Quark's Bar would become the embassy to the Ferengi ambassador, namely Quark. Under those rules and regulations the station was signed over. Now, with a new station being built, Starfleet could decide to make a few adjustments.

Why do you assume that???? They're just putting up a new building. Any administrative or organizational changes they wanted to make, they could've made at any time in that 7-year period. Again, I don't understand why you're equating who built the physical structure with whose policies are in effect within that structure.

 

[JD]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

I don't see them getting rid Quark's. It served a purpose on the old station, and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't continue to do that on the new one. Not to mention the fact that Quark is a big part of the show's regular cast, and I don't see them getting rid of him any time soon.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Why do you assume that???? They're just putting up a new building. Any administrative or organizational changes they wanted to make, they could've made at any time in that 7-year period. Again, I don't understand why you're equating who built the physical structure with whose policies are in effect within that structure.

Christopher, please read back where I said that I was just exploring all possibilities. I'm not assuming anything, just thinking about several ways to go. Again, I never assumed anything. Just trying to play devil's advocate here and thinking of several other options. If you read back more, you will also read that I said I basicly agree with you, but (again) was just stating some other options.

I thought I had made myself clear enough in my earlier posts.

As for bringing up to period from 2369-2376, it was just to clearify something in general about how Quark's positions changed from only a bar to bar and embassy, to clarify that ownership of the facility changed. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Okay, but I just don't see why it would be a possibility. Why would Starfleet, who've already been running DS9 for seven years, suddenly change the rules just because a new physical station gets built? I don't see how you get from one to the other.

 

[Mage]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

Okay, but I just don't see why it would be a possibility. Why would Starfleet, who've already been running DS9 for seven years, suddenly change the rules just because a new physical station gets built? I don't see how you get from one to the other.

A possibility... Starfleet decided that having civilians in hot-spots might not be such a good idea. Now, even though the wormhole is gone and things seem to have settled in the Bajoran system, Starfleet might feel the situation is to unstable at the moment. The wormhole has disappeared before, so it might return. At such a time, the Typhon Pact might want to try and gain control again, either through more rogue agents or through sanctioned means.
Also, with a Founder (Odo) still stuck in the Alpha Quadrant, Starfleet might fear that if the wormhole should return, the Dominion might come screaming through, wanting their Founder back.

I'll confess, these are quite some stretches of the imagination.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Do you think Quark... (Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn SPOILERS!!!

I don't see how the current situation is anywhere near as bad as it was during the Dominion War. If anything, galactic politics seem a lot more stable as of the end of Raise the Dawn as they were before it. The proposal that the situation now is somehow fundamentally worse than anything Starfleet has faced over the past two decades just doesn't hold up.