Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?

[borgboy]

As a gay man I always found Beverly's speech very odd at the end of The Host. I don't see where Bev rejected Odan because of any personal shortcomings. If she's straight then she's not going to be attracted to Odan's new female host. That's not something she has to apologize for. I think the writers meant well, but they kind of fumbled the ending there.
It gets even messier when they completely changed the way Trill joining works on DS9, although one of the novels - the DS9 Trill novella I think - established Odan came from a Trill colony mutated by the Klingon DNA virus or whatever, so maybe their joining worked differently as well as their physical mutation.
I know that Odan goes thru some big changes in a DS9/TNG comic crossover, but I don't believe much or anything has been done with Odan in the novels, which is a bit of a shame because I think Odan is interesting even in his/her own right.

 

[Nyotarules]

Romulans, hated and despised Romulans, who murdered Billions of UFP citizens a century earlier... ARE VULCAN!!!!!

Give the man a minute to process.

"Sigh"

It's Like when we found out that Trump was a Russian secret agent there in the white house following orders from the Kremlin.

Americans just needed time to figure out how to deal congenially with a leader who's rectum is holding on to Vladimir Putin's forearm like a desperate mollusc.

The officer blames Spock for being the same race as Earth's enemies. In real life folks cry foul (rightly, so actually) when they believe certain people are holding them responsible for the sins of their ancestors or even yet claim their ancestors had nothing to do with X.
E.g 'My ancestors were not slave owners, slavery was a long time ago, it has nothing to do with me'.
Kirk was right to call the man out on his attitude to Spock.
Expecting Person A to own their mess is different from expecting Person A to own the mess created by Persons Z just cos they share melanin, DNA or country of origin.
Or maybe I should blame all Caucasians of Western Europe for the Atlantic slave trade...right?

 

[Awesome Possum]

In the Star Trek future, no one should care about those issues in Starfleet. I'm willing to wait and see how it's presented.

If no one in Starfleet cares, why would there be any issue with showing openly gay, trans or non-binary characters? That sends a powerful message that not only are they just like everyone else, they have a place in the future and that the current bigotry against them will be gone, considered to be one of our primitive urges that we evolved out of.

 

[BillJ]

Discovery may be set in the 23rd century, but it airs in the 21st. Since LGBT folks continue to have issues with being accepted by society at large, they definitely should be shown in Star Trek and other series in the here-and-now.

 

[Awesome Possum]

If Star Trek is supposed to be about exploring what it means to be human, then they are failing miserably by ignoring LGBT people. Really having a white gay cis male isn't going to cut it either. They're trying to play it safe and still pat themselves on the back.

For what it's worth, there's a trans character played by a trans actress on Nashville which is shown on Country Music Television. I guess they're a little more progress than the producers of Star Trek and a decent percentage of the fans judging from this thread.

 

[borgboy]

Even if we only have one or two LGBT regulars over the course of the series we should see a variety of different LGBT people - and aliens whose gender and orientation is non cis het standard.

 

[m.lp.ql.m]

The officer blames Spock for being the same race as Earth's enemies. In real life folks cry foul (rightly, so actually) when they believe certain people are holding them responsible for the sins of their ancestors or even yet claim their ancestors had nothing to do with X.
E.g 'My ancestors were not slave owners, slavery was a long time ago, it has nothing to do with me'.
Kirk was right to call the man out on his attitude to Spock.
Expecting Person A to own their mess is different from expecting Person A to own the mess created by Persons Z just cos they share melanin, DNA or country of origin.
Or maybe I should blame all Caucasians of Western Europe for the Atlantic slave trade...right?

If I'm parsing you correctly, this is an overly simplified view of racism. Caucasians of Western Europe obviously aren't, and can't be, responsible for the Atlantic slave trade, but their lives are still a lot easier, in the US at least, than the lives of those who look like those they traded. It's not about assigning blame, it's about not acknowledging the general privileges afforded to them because of their (general lack of) melanin.

 

[Nyotarules]

If I'm parsing you correctly, this is an overly simplified view of racism. Caucasians of Western Europe obviously aren't, and can't be, responsible for the Atlantic slave trade, but their lives are still a lot easier, in the US at least, than the lives of those who look like those they traded. It's not about assigning blame, it's about not acknowledging the general privileges afforded to them because of their (general lack of) melanin.

You are parsing me incorrecty the point was about a crew member blaming Spock for the sins of the Romulans in a TOS episode. The crewmember expressed bigotry towards Spock, who is about as much to blame for the existence of Romulans and a war that took place almost 70 years before he was born as present day Caucasians are to blame for the slave trade. The crewmember's bigotry is misplaced and illogical just as mine would be if I blamed all white people for what happened 200 years ago. The point in the TOS episode was not about racial privilege but about bigotry.

 

[BRINX01]

If no one in Starfleet cares, why would there be any issue with showing openly gay, trans or non-binary characters? That sends a powerful message that not only are they just like everyone else, they have a place in the future and that the current bigotry against them will be gone, considered to be one of our primitive urges that we evolved out of.

Maybe I should have said: "In the Star Trek future, no Starfleet character should be depicted as having a negative attitude about those types of issues in their fellow Starfleet crewmates. I'm willing to wait and see how it's presented."

 

[BRINX01]

As a gay man I always found Beverly's speech very odd at the end of The Host. I don't see where Bev rejected Odan because of any personal shortcomings. If she's straight then she's not going to be attracted to Odan's new female host. That's not something she has to apologize for. I think the writers meant well, but they kind of fumbled the ending there.

New ending: Odan is transferred to the new female host and in the end where she comes to say goodbye Beverly says, "Come with me." The next scene we see Beverly and the male Odan together in an ideal setting. They share some intimate moments and the scene fades out implying that they took it to the next level. Then, they come back and share a long kiss. At the end they pull apart still holding hands and Beverly says, "Computer, end program." The setting disappears, Odan changes holographically back into her new female form, they smile and part as friends. On the way out Beverly pauses and says, "Save program... in case you decide to come visit me." The female Odan says, "Count on it."

 

[Awesome Possum]

Maybe I should have said: "In the Star Trek future, no Starfleet character should be depicted as having a negative attitude about those types of issues in their fellow Starfleet crewmates. I'm willing to wait and see how it's presented."

They aren't issues, they're part of their identity. They shouldn't have a negative opinion or even see it as something unusual, but they shouldn't ignore it completely. Ignoring it is erasing a part of humanity for the comfort of a possibly bigoted audience.

New ending: Odan is transferred to the new female host and in the end where she comes to say goodbye Beverly says, "Come with me." The next scene we see Beverly and the male Odan together in an ideal setting. They share some intimate moments and the scene fades out implying that they took it to the next level. Then, they come back and share a long kiss. At the end they pull apart still holding hands and Beverly says, "Computer, end program." The setting disappears, Odan changes holographically back into her new female form, they smile and part as friends. On the way out Beverly pauses and says, "Save program... in case you decide to come visit me." The female Odan says, "Count on it."

That's pretty awful, she shouldn't have to pretend to be someone else to make Beverly feel better. It would make Beverly look extremely selfish.

 

[Guy Gardener]

New ending = Beverly is fired/kicked out of starfleet for being a sexist specists.

If it was just the swap, she could have claimed that it was too big an adjustment, but Bev spent three days frakking Riker, and playing with Riker's frakkable bits, because he claimed to mostly be Odan, and she took his word for it.

 

[borgboy]

I always did think it was more than a little weird that Riker Odan had sex with Bev.
It's totally ok for someone to not want to have sex or romance with anyone they choose.

 

[borgboy]

New ending: Odan is transferred to the new female host and in the end where she comes to say goodbye Beverly says, "Come with me." The next scene we see Beverly and the male Odan together in an ideal setting. They share some intimate moments and the scene fades out implying that they took it to the next level. Then, they come back and share a long kiss. At the end they pull apart still holding hands and Beverly says, "Computer, end program." The setting disappears, Odan changes holographically back into her new female form, they smile and part as friends. On the way out Beverly pauses and says, "Save program... in case you decide to come visit me." The female Odan says, "Count on it."

That would be pretty weird - using the holodeck to basically make you a holographic body to wear for sex. It goes against everything the Trills believe in moving on from their former host's life into new experiences.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Beverly could have just said she was straight and left it at that. You can't change your orientation. She could have still cared for Odan, but she couldn't make it work sexually.

If it were really the change itself that was the problem, they should have had her be more apprehensive about Odan in Riker's body.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I always did think it was more than a little weird that Riker Odan had sex with Bev.
It's totally ok for someone to not want to have sex or romance with anyone they choose.

They could have gone back to dating.

They were definitely an item.

He had unnecessary surgery for her.

(Odan could have stayed in an incubator, he didn't need to be Will Riker?)

It's still the same dude on the inside.

The only reason that Beverly could have gotten to know Odan better at all, as a person, is if she didn't know him at all, because she was blinded by his hotness, and that was a good enough reason to present her flower.

 

[Tenacity]

She could have still cared for Odan, but she couldn't make it work sexually.

Bev and Odan could have had a non-sexual love affair, affaires de coeur.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Bev and Odan could have had a non-sexual love affair, affaires de coeur.

They could have, but the writers were trying to get his/her ass out the door so Beverly could forget all about him/her.

 

[BRINX01]

Beverly could have just said she was straight and left it at that. You can't change your orientation. She could have still cared for Odan, but she couldn't make it work sexually.

If it were really the change itself that was the problem, they should have had her be more apprehensive about Odan in Riker's body.

I remember someone a while back commenting/joking about sexual orientation. They basically said, if you want me to try being straight, fine. I'll be straight for a year if you'll be gay for a year. I think I'm butchering the quote, though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That joke begins with "Oh being gay is a "choice" really?" because "it's a choice" is one of those stupid things, that those people say.