Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?

[ihno]

Good writing is good writing, it doesn't matter who or what the characters are. The same goes for bad writing. I don't think we should avoid certain kinds of characters because some writers are awful.

Perhaps we misunderstand each other. I have never said that.

I have only said that I don't want to see a cliché like I see it on other shows, which - of course - is a sign of bad writing.

Especially as a gay man I don't want to see gay clichés on shows that I might like otherwise because I don't want to feel insulted.
Like f.e. with doctor who, when Moffatt brings in some gay characters or sexual jokes. They had a "transsexual horse" once and it was terribly stupid.

And there is no reason why I should believe that they will do a good job, even considering that Fuller is out and proud himself. So they will have to convince me that the gay character doesn't turn out to be some kind of Neelix.

edit: what I would like would be somehting like they did it with Uhura. Except for Abraham Lincoln nobody ever noticed that she was black.

 

[Kemaiku]

Star Trek is so far behind this issue that they really have to at least attempt it or be left behind forever in TV history. Most modern television is already making watching reruns of the shows painful in how insular and sanitised they were on various issues.

 

[Jinn]

edit: what I would like would be somehting like they did it with Uhura. Except for Abraham Lincoln nobody ever noticed that she was black.

I think we'll need a time travel episode.

 

[ihno]

I think we'll need a time travel episode.

Like the TNG episode The Neutral Zone with the idiots from the 20th century? I loved that, esp. Peter Mark Richman. Fine by me.

It could appear a little forced though.

 

[Jinn]

Like the TNG episode The Neutral Zone with the idiots from the 20th century? I loved that, esp. Peter Mark Richman. Fine by me.

It could appear a little forced though.

I meant more in a "Can you direct us to the naval base in Alameda? It's where they keep the nuclear wessels." way, but that does sound intriguing. I usually love every sort of interaction with pre-Warp humans (or other species like in TNG "First Contact".)

 

[Awesome Possum]

Perhaps we misunderstand each other. I have never said that.

I have only said that I don't want to see a cliché like I see it on other shows, which - of course - is a sign of bad writing.

Especially as a gay man I don't want to see gay clichés on shows that I might like otherwise because I don't want to feel insulted.
Like f.e. with doctor who, when Moffatt brings in some gay characters or sexual jokes. They had a "transsexual horse" once and it was terribly stupid.

And there is no reason why I should believe that they will do a good job, even considering that Fuller is out and proud himself. So they will have to convince me that the gay character doesn't turn out to be some kind of Neelix.

edit: what I would like would be somehting like they did it with Uhura. Except for Abraham Lincoln nobody ever noticed that she was black.

Given what other shows are doing, I really doubt we'll get cliches. But Moffatt is pretty awful when it comes to anything but elaborate plot puzzles. He can't write a female character who isn't a plot device to save his life.

 

[m.lp.ql.m]

How would you reconcile that (in-universe of course) with the observed fact that they obviously DO give heterosexuality " a second thought?"

Good point. I was rephrasing Sgt_G's post though.

 

[ihno]

Given what other shows are doing, I really doubt we'll get cliches.

I doesn't have to be a full cliché, there is always room for stereotypes. But I hope you will be right. At the moment everything is unclear.

But Moffatt is pretty awful when it comes to anything but elaborate plot puzzles. He can't write a female character who isn't a plot device to save his life.

Yes, he can't write a good female character. They are all the same. Remember that line "That's a woman!" ? I love Missy though. Great idea and great actress.

I meant more in a "Can you direct us to the naval base in Alameda? It's where they keep the nuclear wessels." way, but that does sound intriguing. I usually love every sort of interaction with pre-Warp humans (or other species like in TNG "First Contact".)

Or that way around.

But they really shouldn't do more than a Miles/Keiko story with two persons of the same sex. No long exploration of homosexuality as a phenomenon. Like Kemtrail has said, other shows have done it. They missed the chance when they did Enterprise.

They should pretend that they have done it and just include a gay etc. character in the crew with the same amount of interaction as the others have and nothing more.

 

[Tenacity]

Good point. I was rephrasing Sgt_G's post though.

Ahh.

 

[Nyotarules]

edit: what I would like would be somehting like they did it with Uhura. Except for Abraham Lincoln nobody ever noticed that she was black.

They noticed she was black it was as important an issue as Bone's blue eyes. As a black woman the ' don't see colour mantra' insulting. The amount of melanin in my body is there for all to see, but if folks want to make an issue out of it, that is another matter.

 

[Nyotarules]

The gay version of the O'Briens or Jadzia/Worf will be good to see, the first would be considered a mixed race couple in our time and it was not an issue in the ST universe or 'abnormal' for human relations, the latter were a mixed race couple and it still was not a major issue. Actually would like to see the latter and the issue being not that they are the same gendar but that one is Human the other something else... Tellarite perhaps?

 

[Awesome Possum]

Exactly, just make any issue they have be a relationship issue that everyone has. Maybe they argue over one character going on too many away missions and their spouse worries they won't come back and wants them to transfer to a different assignment. As a bonus you get a little tongue in cheek references to red shirts. Just show that despite all the differences we think we have, we're really all the same at the core.

 

[Tenacity]

As a black woman the ' don't see colour mantra' insulting.

As a lesbian, I've felt insulted (and admittedly confused) by posters in the past of similar threads who want characters who are gay to "just happen to be gay."

What does that even mean?

 

[Nyotarules]

As a lesbian, I've felt insulted (and admittedly confused) by posters in the past of similar threads who want characters who are gay to "just happen to be gay."

What does that even mean?

Maybe its the same as just happen to be straight. (Shrugs)

 

[Awesome Possum]

As a lesbian, I've felt insulted (and admittedly confused) by posters in the past of similar threads who want characters who are gay to "just happen to be gay."

What does that even mean?

I'm pretty sure that most people get their idea of gay people from stereotypes and cliches. That's why we keep seeing this idea that LGBT characters would be cliches on Star Trek, because that's all they've seen on TV before and for many people TV is reality.

 

[rRico]

As a lesbian, I've felt insulted (and admittedly confused) by posters in the past of similar threads who want characters who are gay to "just happen to be gay."

What does that even mean?

That it is no big issue. Just a fact of life.

 

[Amaris]

That it is no big issue. Just a fact of life.

It is a big issue, one that needs rectified. Just because you think it's "just a fact of life" doesn't mean millions of human beings deserve to be painted with a broad brush of ignorance. Perception is reality, so when reality is that people are seen as incidentally gay, you change the perception and the reality will follow. It is good that Star Trek: Discovery will have a gay character. I can only hope they will be portrayed with authenticity.

 

[Nyotarules]

^What is an authentic gay character?

 

[ihno]

A character that gay people can watch without feeling that they're getting insulted.

 

[Awesome Possum]

That it is no big issue. Just a fact of life.

What do you mean by "no big issue"? It's a part of who you are as a human being and informs a lot about a person. Ignoring that is ignoring a major aspect of their lives because some people aren't comfortable with it. It should be a major point that straight and cis people aren't the default of humanity, you're just another part of the whole.