Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?

[Awesome Possum]

It's a pretty universal concept that pedos are horrible.

Pedos who act on it are horrible. But there are people with those impulses who struggle with them without acting on them, and they're still "pedophiles" unless you can tell me a better name for them.

Like I said, it could be an interesting subject that a show could put a spotlight on for discussion. It's also not going to happen, because society largely isn't ready to have that discussion in any way that goes beyond "kill the sickos".

What point are you trying to make? Should the show have a character who wants to murder people but holds themselves back?

 

[Ryan8bit]

It's a pretty universal concept that pedos are horrible.

Pedos who act on it are horrible. But there are people with those impulses who struggle with them without acting on them, and they're still "pedophiles" unless you can tell me a better name for them.

Like I said, it could be an interesting subject that a show could put a spotlight on for discussion. It's also not going to happen, because society largely isn't ready to have that discussion in any way that goes beyond "kill the sickos".

What point are you trying to make? Should the show have a character who wants to murder people but holds themselves back?

What, like a Vulcan?

 

[Kemaiku]

Character who wants to murder people but holds themselves back?

Wasn't the black eyed guy in Voyager just that?

Anyway, no. People with those kinds of problems would not get through Starfleet Academy. Suter was I think part of the Maquis are therefore a terrorrist, so...that explained him.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Character who wants to murder people but holds themselves back?

Wasn't the black eyed guy in Voyager just that?

Anyway, no. People with those kinds of problems would not get through Starfleet Academy. Suter was I think part of the Maquis are therefore a terrorrist, so...that explained him.

They probably shouldn't let pedos in either then. Unless they're taking nomolestol like Sgt. Hatred on Venture Bros.

 

[Kemaiku]

Character who wants to murder people but holds themselves back?

Wasn't the black eyed guy in Voyager just that?

Anyway, no. People with those kinds of problems would not get through Starfleet Academy. Suter was I think part of the Maquis are therefore a terrorrist, so...that explained him.

They probably shouldn't let pedos in either then.

No shit?

 

[Awesome Possum]

Wasn't the black eyed guy in Voyager just that?

Anyway, no. People with those kinds of problems would not get through Starfleet Academy. Suter was I think part of the Maquis are therefore a terrorrist, so...that explained him.

They probably shouldn't let pedos in either then.

No shit?

I'm in full agreement. But USS Triumphant isn't on board yet.

 

[Kemaiku]

I'm in full agreement. But USS Triumphant isn't on board yet.

Oh, that's worrying.

 

[Amaris]

I never thought of Garak as sexual at all. If he was, sex would be just another tool of manipulation.

Pansexual is an orientation. You don't have to have sex to be pansexual

No, I mean I never thought he was interested in anyone sexually or had any sexual urges.

Ah, I see. I'm pretty certain there were times when Garak was sexually/romantically interested in other people. He was well disciplined, but biology is a powerful thing. As I mentioned, Andrew did intend to play him as having a sexual attraction to Bashir, but they nixed it (shame, too).

He also seemed to be attracted to Natima Lang, though that could have been because he had so rarely seen a Cardassian on the station that it affected him strongly. Of course, then there's the whole "hold them at gunpoint" thing, but hey, it's love!

Then there was Tora Ziyal, though, again, that could have been simply because she was Dukat's daughter, and the notion of wresting her away from her father's influence interested him. Still, he did seem to love her, so I don't know. That's the thing about Garak, you never really knew his motives.

USS Triumphant mentioned a gender-fluid character though. I'm still trying to work out who that is (unless by gender-fluid, they simply meant bisexual).

At first I thought it could be Odo because he literally is capable of being gender-fluid but Odo makes it clear that he identifies as male and what's more, as heterosexual. Why the founders would have male or female appearance is anyone's guess.

Odo likely emulated the first person he came to know, which was Dr. Mora Pol, a male humanoid who probably had a family. That may have imprinted on the young changeling pretty heavily, and since Odo is essentially a chameleon, he adopted those traits for himself.

 

[hux]

Odo likely emulated the first person he came to know, which was Dr. Mora Pol, a male humanoid who probably had a family. That may have imprinted on the young changeling pretty heavily, and since Odo is essentially a chameleon, he adopted those traits for himself.

Then what's the story with all the other changelings? They all seem to choose a gender. If ever Trek had the perfect life-form to play with transgendered or non-gendered issues, the changelings probably were it.

 

[Trekkin]

Torchwood had a murderous 'not currently active' pedophile in that last season. He managed to make an incredibly unpleasant and over-padded season, even more unpleasant and over padded.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I'm in full agreement. But USS Triumphant isn't on board yet.

No, I'm on board - but mainly because I wouldn't want the presence of such a character to get the show killed.

I think some of you are engaging *exactly* the instincts I'm talking about with this issue, too. An active and unrepentant pedophile is certainly a scumbag - I feel sure we're all on the same page there.

But if you really stop and think about it, try to move past your instincts for a moment, someone who sees those impulses within themselves and says, "you know, I really need to tell someone and get help with this before I become a threat to anyone" is actually quite BRAVE - especially because they would have to know they would face reactions like yours - and would be exactly the sort of person that, aside from those impulses, you would want in Starfleet.

I think we're way off on a tangent here that can probably end, since we're all on the same page that this character doesn't need to be in the upcoming series - regardless of the reason why. But whenever I've given the issue any thought, I've thought that we have to wonder how many people with pedophilia went untreated until they ended up hurting someone precisely because of the pariah we would have made out of them if they had come out openly with it and sought help before that point.

I'm also apparently not the only one who has had similar thoughts, either, because I recall an episode of "Criminal Minds" with a guest character that was in a similar situation, trying to get help - only his impulses ran to serial killing rather than pedophilia. And that character was played by Anton Yelchin (nuChekov), no less.

 

[Amaris]

Odo likely emulated the first person he came to know, which was Dr. Mora Pol, a male humanoid who probably had a family. That may have imprinted on the young changeling pretty heavily, and since Odo is essentially a chameleon, he adopted those traits for himself.

Then what's the story with all the other changelings? They all seem to choose a gender. If ever Trek had the perfect life-form to play with transgendered or non-gendered issues, the changelings probably were it.

They probably, and this is a bit of guessing to be sure, emulate gender because they think "solids" can't comprehend a non-gender or bi-gender species. Remember, they think very little of us. That's just a guess, though.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I think the next Captain should be a gay male.
Chief engineer - straight female
Ship counselor - trans

 

[borgboy]

I want to repeat the sentiment that the LGBT discussion thread isn't really the right venue for a discussion of pedophiles. If anybody really has anything else to say on that subject, could we move it to a separate thread please?

 

[Awesome Possum]

Odo likely emulated the first person he came to know, which was Dr. Mora Pol, a male humanoid who probably had a family. That may have imprinted on the young changeling pretty heavily, and since Odo is essentially a chameleon, he adopted those traits for himself.

Then what's the story with all the other changelings? They all seem to choose a gender. If ever Trek had the perfect life-form to play with transgendered or non-gendered issues, the changelings probably were it.

Not really. I believe that the majority feel a sense of unease with the body they were born with, which leads to them changing it.

This would be an alien concept to a changeling since they can change at will.

 

[hux]

Not really. I believe that the majority feel a sense of unease with the body they were born with, which leads to them changing it.

This would be an alien concept to a changeling since they can change at will.

Don't changelings feel unease at being solids? Yet when they are, they clearly show a preference for being a particular gender. Why? There was really nothing forcing them to prefer or maintain a particular gender when solid. Had Odo first encountered a female scientist and chosen to mimic her gender, would he still have fallen in love with Kira?

Plus, I was talking more about the 20th century viewers perspective. If Trek was too scared to look at the issue of gender directly then there was definitely an opportunity to look at it through the changelings.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Not really. I believe that the majority feel a sense of unease with the body they were born with, which leads to them changing it.

This would be an alien concept to a changeling since they can change at will.

Don't changelings feel unease at being solids? Yet when they are, they clearly show a preference for being a particular gender. Why? There was really nothing forcing them to prefer or maintain a particular gender when solid. Had Odo first encountered a female scientist and chosen to mimic her gender, would he still have fallen in love with Kira?

Plus, I was talking more about the 20th century viewers perspective. If Trek was too scared to look at the issue of gender directly then there was definitely an opportunity to look at it through the changelings.

If they have an unease with being solids, that's just because they do feel at ease with their natural form which is a liquid. I'm not sure why they even have genders to being with, other than it's easier for the majority of the audience to deal with them. I really don't think its a valid comparison. Other than some sort of change occurring, they really have nothing in common.

 

[hux]

If they have an unease with being solids, that's just because they do feel at ease with their natural form which is a liquid. I'm not sure why they even have genders to being with, other than it's easier for the majority of the audience to deal with them. I really don't think its a valid comparison. Other than some sort of change occurring, they really have nothing in common.

They are uneasy with being solids yet when they do take that form, they purposely choose to exhibit a gender (even in private). They take the shape (female changeling has breasts), they assume a higher or lower pitch when speaking, they take on these roles for unknown reasons.

Either the changelings have genders even in liquid form (and that explains that) or, at the very least, there is an opportunity here to use them as an indirect exploration of the transgender issue. Of all the species seen in Trek, they would have been a very effective means of addressing the issue without terrifying the conservative viewer (in lieu of a straight-forward transgender character).

 

[Awesome Possum]

If they have an unease with being solids, that's just because they do feel at ease with their natural form which is a liquid. I'm not sure why they even have genders to being with, other than it's easier for the majority of the audience to deal with them. I really don't think its a valid comparison. Other than some sort of change occurring, they really have nothing in common.

They are uneasy with being solids yet when they do take that form, they purposely choose to exhibit a gender (even in private). They take the shape (female changeling has breasts), they assume a higher or lower pitch when speaking, they take on these roles for unknown reasons.

Either the changelings have genders even in liquid form (and that explains that) or, at the very least, there is an opportunity here to use them as an indirect exploration of the transgender issue. Of all the species seen in Trek, they would have been a very effective means of addressing the issue without terrifying the conservative viewer (in lieu of a straight-forward transgender character).

You could do it that way. But I don't think it would be a major issue for them. They just change the form they use around solids. Really it shouldn't be a big deal to anyone. But Star Trek is supposed to be a lesson to the audience, not the main characters. If the conservative viewer has problems with it, maybe they should reconsider their views. They never had to dance around Uhura being a member of the crew when a decent percentage of the country was openly racist.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Yeah, but they dance around actual racism by having it be about aliens. Also, if we're talking DS9 and not some future show, then it would've been pretty revolutionary then. Alas, DS9 wasn't really about heavy hitting moral stuff very often.

I don't think this new show is going to explore transgender stuff directly either. It's not the same thing as race, which is clearly visible. Even with the L and G (and to some extent B), you can display those things without words. That's not as easy with the T, especially given that this is the future and they should have solved this issue. And that opens a whole other can of worms.