Do you support Arizona?

[Mistral]

On the MLK holiday, that reasoning is horseshit. They are already paying them to work, they just would lose one more day of productivity.

Which is exactly the same thing as losing money.

And AZ's solution allowed the holiday but not the day off. Pretty much for that very reason. I think they shifted and removed another holiday to give people MLK Day. Don't remember how it all shook out.

 

[TheBrew]

On the MLK holiday, that reasoning is horseshit. They are already paying them to work, they just would lose one more day of productivity.

Which is exactly the same thing as losing money.

Have you seen government workers? Losing a day of productivity means that they sat on their thumbs at home instead of at work.

 

[Chaos Descending]

On the MLK holiday, that reasoning is horseshit. They are already paying them to work, they just would lose one more day of productivity.

Which is exactly the same thing as losing money.

And AZ's solution allowed the holiday but not the day off. Pretty much for that very reason. I think they shifted and removed another holiday to give people MLK Day. Don't remember how it all shook out.

If I recall correctly, they gave the employee the choice to take either MLK or President's Day.

If I recall correctly.

On the MLK holiday, that reasoning is horseshit. They are already paying them to work, they just would lose one more day of productivity.

Which is exactly the same thing as losing money.

Have you seen government workers? Losing a day of productivity means that they sat on their thumbs at home instead of at work.

Ha! Point taken.

 

[FrontLine]

Hmm, this is interesting

(a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws. (b) With respect to any such person who is arrested, and suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws, every law enforcement agency shall do the following: (1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding documentation to indicate his or her legal status. (2) Notify the person of his or her apparent status as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws and inform him or her that, apart from any criminal justice proceedings, he or she must either obtain legal status or leave the United States. (3) Notify the Attorney General of California and the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service of the apparent illegal status and provide any additional information that may be requested by any other public entity. (c) Any legislative, administrative, or other action by a city, county, or other legally authorized local governmental entity with jurisdictional boundaries, or by a law enforcement agency, to prevent or limit the cooperation required by subdivision (a) is expressly prohibited. (Section 834b in the California Penal Code)

Wow. So just about the same statute. Plus it makes sanctuary cities illegal. So when do the boycotts of California start? How could they be so racist? I guess this makes CA just as much of a shit hole as AZ now.

 

[Crash]

Wow. So just about the same statute. Plus it makes sanctuary cities illegal. So when do the boycotts of California start? How could they be so racist? I guess this makes CA just as much of a shit hole as AZ now.

Since you're undoubtedly referring to me, and decided to cross post your crap from That-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named to a thread I haven't been active for in days I'm just going to have to refer you to my response in that other forum.

As for Arizona being a shithole. It was a shithole before. This issue has nothing to do with it being a shithole. It just simply is.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Oh, Crash....

 

[Crash]

^ Oh, Crash....

You guys would think something was wrong if I wasn't abrasive.

 

[FrontLine]

Wow. So just about the same statute. Plus it makes sanctuary cities illegal. So when do the boycotts of California start? How could they be so racist? I guess this makes CA just as much of a shit hole as AZ now.

Since you're undoubtedly referring to me, and decided to cross post your crap from That-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named to a thread I haven't been active for in days I'm just going to have to refer you to my response in that other forum.

As for Arizona being a shithole. It was a shithole before. This issue has nothing to do with it being a shithole. It just simply is.

In your opinion. We could find many people on both sides that say that AZ is a shit hole and who would say that CA is is the shit hole.

The question still remains; how is CA superior to AZ when in fact they had their laws on the books PRIOR to AZ passing them? If in your opinion AZ is a shit hole for passing these laws then by extension CA would be a shit hole too.

 

[Cornholio]

nice post FrontLine.

knowledge is power.

 

[MANT!]

Part of the issue I have with the law is historical..

Back during slavery, free blacks were required to keep documents with them AT ALL TIMES proving that they were free..when confronted by the authorities those documents had to pass muster..and one little mistake by a bureaucrat could cost a man his EARNED freedom...


I really don't see the difference between the Arizona law and those old laws..

Both of them make an individual PROVE his status..not have the state prove it..

They assume guilt and the legal resident has to prove his INNOCENCE..instead of innocent until proven guilty..



Illegal immigration MUST be controlled, but not with Draconian measures such as that state law.. (BTW Arizona is DEAD last in the USA in it's education system..rather telling if you ask me)

 

[Cornholio]

(BTW Arizona is DEAD last in the USA in it's education system..rather telling if you ask me)

as an indictment of the students or the teachers? that's a door that swings both ways.

I'm thinkin' it's the former rather than the latter.

and a link to statistics would be nice.

 

[MANT!]

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank06.htmd Ask and ye shall receive, please note that California is now 47th...as of 2006 (the last year that data has been released)..

I think far less is the quality of the students but far more about the quality of the Education system, after all the quality of the students isn't the deciding factor but what the system does WITH the students..

 

[gturner]

Part of the issue I have with the law is historical..

Back during slavery, free blacks were required to keep documents with them AT ALL TIMES proving that they were free..when confronted by the authorities those documents had to pass muster..and one little mistake by a bureaucrat could cost a man his EARNED freedom...


I really don't see the difference between the Arizona law and those old laws..

Both of them make an individual PROVE his status..not have the state prove it..

They assume guilt and the legal resident has to prove his INNOCENCE..instead of innocent until proven guilty..



Illegal immigration MUST be controlled, but not with Draconian measures such as that state law.. (BTW Arizona is DEAD last in the USA in it's education system..rather telling if you ask me)

I'm sure airline pilots have to keep their commercial pilot's license handy when they're flying, too. Does that make them slaves?

Oddly enough, the official position of the administration is in support of the Arizona law - even though they keep speaking against it without even reading it. Arizona even cited the federal position that supported their actions.

 

[MANT!]

Not the same as you pointed out with your auto insurance analogy in regards to healthcare..

 

[gturner]

How about this nice letter to the mayor of Los Angeles?

Dear Mayor Villaraigosa,

I was dismayed to learn that the Los Angeles City Council voted to boycott Arizona and Arizona-based companies — a vote you strongly supported — to show opposition to SB 1070 (Support our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act).

You explained your support of the boycott as follows: “While we recognize that as neighbors, we share resources and ties with the State of Arizona that may be difficult to sever, our goal is not to hurt the local economy of Los Angeles, but to impact the economy of Arizona. Our intent is to use our dollars — or the withholding of our dollars — to send a message.” (emphasis added)

I received your message; please receive mine. As a state-wide elected member of the Arizona Corporation Commission overseeing Arizona’s electric and water utilities, I too am keenly aware of the “resources and ties” we share with the City of Los Angeles. In fact, approximately twenty-five percent of the electricity consumed in Los Angeles is generated by power plants in Arizona.

If an economic boycott is truly what you desire, I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation. I am confident that Arizona’s utilities would be happy to take those electrons off your hands. If, however, you find that the City Council lacks the strength of its convictions to turn off the lights in Los Angeles and boycott Arizona power, please reconsider the wisdom of attempting to harm Arizona’s economy.

People of goodwill can disagree over the merits of SB 1070. A state-wide economic boycott of Arizona is not a message sent in goodwill.

Sincerely,

Commissioner Gary Pierce

 

[Crash]

In your opinion. We could find many people on both sides that say that AZ is a shit hole and who would say that CA is is the shit hole.

I never said it wasn't anything but my opinion. I think Ohio sucks too, and I'm from there.

The difference here is you're getting annoyed by the fact that I'm calling Arizona a shithole while I really could care less what you -- or anyone else -- thinks of California.

The question still remains; how is CA superior to AZ when in fact they had their laws on the books PRIOR to AZ passing them? If in your opinion AZ is a shit hole for passing these laws then by extension CA would be a shit hole too.

I answered this in the "other" thread, but I'll summarize here: I'll go with Tact for $500, Alex. Arizona managed to annoy a lot of people who bring money into the state with this act. Right in the middle of a struggling economy too. Good job, guys.

 

[tkron]

How about this nice letter to the mayor of Los Angeles?

Dear Mayor Villaraigosa,

I was dismayed to learn that the Los Angeles City Council voted to boycott Arizona and Arizona-based companies — a vote you strongly supported — to show opposition to SB 1070 (Support our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act).

You explained your support of the boycott as follows: “While we recognize that as neighbors, we share resources and ties with the State of Arizona that may be difficult to sever, our goal is not to hurt the local economy of Los Angeles, but to impact the economy of Arizona. Our intent is to use our dollars — or the withholding of our dollars — to send a message.” (emphasis added)

I received your message; please receive mine. As a state-wide elected member of the Arizona Corporation Commission overseeing Arizona’s electric and water utilities, I too am keenly aware of the “resources and ties” we share with the City of Los Angeles. In fact, approximately twenty-five percent of the electricity consumed in Los Angeles is generated by power plants in Arizona.

If an economic boycott is truly what you desire, I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation. I am confident that Arizona’s utilities would be happy to take those electrons off your hands. If, however, you find that the City Council lacks the strength of its convictions to turn off the lights in Los Angeles and boycott Arizona power, please reconsider the wisdom of attempting to harm Arizona’s economy.

People of goodwill can disagree over the merits of SB 1070. A state-wide economic boycott of Arizona is not a message sent in goodwill.

Sincerely,

Commissioner Gary Pierce

Nice tough letter, Commissioner Pierce. But remember, it's all about the follow through. Maybe San Francisco would appreciate some of that power.

 

[FrontLine]

In your opinion. We could find many people on both sides that say that AZ is a shit hole and who would say that CA is is the shit hole.

I never said it wasn't anything but my opinion. I think Ohio sucks too, and I'm from there.

The difference here is you're getting annoyed by the fact that I'm calling Arizona a shithole while I really could care less what you -- or anyone else -- thinks of California.

The question still remains; how is CA superior to AZ when in fact they had their laws on the books PRIOR to AZ passing them? If in your opinion AZ is a shit hole for passing these laws then by extension CA would be a shit hole too.

I answered this in the "other" thread, but I'll summarize here: I'll go with Tact for $500, Alex. Arizona managed to annoy a lot of people who bring money into the state with this act. Right in the middle of a struggling economy too. Good job, guys.

I live in Florida, why would I get upset with or care about AZ being called a shit hole. On the other hand I am interested in what you consider to be qualifications for a state to reach "shit hole" status. Your posts indicated that it was this law that elevated AZ to that unique status. Now it appears that CA also meets the criteria. I'm just interested as to why one would be a shit hold and not the other.

So it looks like your position is that its A.O.K for CA to pass the same laws, but since they did it at a different time AZ is now magically different. As for people who bring money into the state, with less illegals you will now have job opportunities for those who are jobless at better rates of pay. Add to that the penalties for companies that hire illeglas and it will be at worst a wash and more likely result in money in the hands of legal aliens and citizens alike.

Oh and speaking about money there is this too:

Dear Mayor Villaraigosa,

I was dismayed to learn that the Los Angeles City Council voted to boycott Arizona and Arizona-based companies — a vote you strongly supported — to show opposition to SB 1070 (Support our Law Enforcement and Safe Neighborhoods Act).

You explained your support of the boycott as follows: “While we recognize that as neighbors, we share resources and ties with the State of Arizona that may be difficult to sever, our goal is not to hurt the local economy of Los Angeles, but to impact the economy of Arizona. Our intent is to use our dollars — or the withholding of our dollars — to send a message.” (emphasis added)

I received your message; please receive mine. As a state-wide elected member of the Arizona Corporation Commission overseeing Arizona’s electric and water utilities, I too am keenly aware of the “resources and ties” we share with the City of Los Angeles. In fact, approximately twenty-five percent of the electricity consumed in Los Angeles is generated by power plants in Arizona.

If an economic boycott is truly what you desire, I will be happy to encourage Arizona utilities to renegotiate your power agreements so Los Angeles no longer receives any power from Arizona-based generation. I am confident that Arizona’s utilities would be happy to take those electrons off your hands. If, however, you find that the City Council lacks the strength of its convictions to turn off the lights in Los Angeles and boycott Arizona power, please reconsider the wisdom of attempting to harm Arizona’s economy.

People of goodwill can disagree over the merits of SB 1070. A state-wide economic boycott of Arizona is not a message sent in goodwill.

Sincerely,

Commissioner Gary Pierce

LINK Wow. If LA really wants to remain true to their principles then I guess they only have one choice.

 

[Cornholio]

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank06.htmd Ask and ye shall receive, please note that California is now 47th...as of 2006 (the last year that data has been released)..

umm, thanks for the link.

it's broken.

I think far less is the quality of the students but far more about the quality of the Education system, after all the quality of the students isn't the deciding factor but what the system does WITH the students..

not that I disagree completely, but disinterested, unmotivated students abound. they tend to bring the others around them down. even if the educational system was perfect, there always students who do not take advantage of the opportunity to learn. and it all starts at home with disinterested parents who do not value education.

 

[Crash]

I live in Florida, why would I get upset with or care about AZ being called a shit hole. On the other hand I am interested in what you consider to be qualifications for a state to reach "shit hole" status. Your posts indicated that it was this law that elevated AZ to that unique status. Now it appears that CA also meets the criteria. I'm just interested as to why one would be a shit hold and not the other.

Let's start with their education system.

Snowbirds hurt their case too. I'm sure you know about them in Florida.

So it looks like your position is that its A.O.K for CA to pass the same laws, but since they did it at a different time AZ is now magically different. As for people who bring money into the state, with less illegals you will now have job opportunities for those who are jobless at better rates of pay. Add to that the penalties for companies that hire illeglas and it will be at worst a wash and more likely result in money in the hands of legal aliens and citizens alike.

Yeah, just what I always wanted: a job picking fruit for a few bucks a day.

Wow. If LA really wants to remain true to their principles then I guess they only have one choice.

Since we're entertaining silly revenge fantasies here, I doubt Arizona is going to do anything to piss off the 8th largest economy in the world. Believe me, if they fuck with us, they'll be cannibalizing one another and living in third world squalor long before we will.

Plus, in the interest of being as utterly "retarded" as this particular letter my counter proposal is that should any electricity be cut to LA we take a bunch of buses, load them up with the Hispanic gangbangers who are without power and turn them loose in Arizona. Have fun with MS-13, Sheriff Joe!