Do you ever find yourself relating to Spock?

[Joshua Howard]

More than any other single fiction phenomena, Star Trek captures my attention; and more than any other character in Star Trek, Spock. I often find myself relating to Spock's logical approach, and his struggles - as he quotes in "The Enemy Within" - "I have a human half and an alien half warring against each other constantly, but I survive because my intellect triumphs over them both."

I find myself facing questions that most people wouldn't think to ask because of Star Trek; Is it logical to eat animals and use products which come from them if they are our evolutionary relatives? (In Motion Picture IV, The Voyage Home, Spock says to Kirk "If we are to assume that these whales are ours to do with as we please, we are as guilty as those who caused their extinction.") In another TOS episode which I cannot remember the name of, he also is quoted saying "What is wrong with me... I have eaten animal flesh, and enjoyed it."

Furthermore, when you think about the value of logic - you ultimately have to come to the conclusion that feeling - which is the bread and butter of humanity - is also the cause of it's pain, and it's biggest threat. I find myself divided between an appreciation for logic and a desire to be human... to the point of feeling like I'm going to drive myself to ruin sometimes.

With discipline, I've found that I can live my life more or less free of mistakes; it is possible to say the right things, do the right things - to simply melt all of life down to the principle of collecting data and analyzing it; and yet to do so I must give up the emotional element that humanity relates to.

Your average person would rather work with somebody that has a productivity rate of 50% and a "vibrant" personality than they would work with someone who acts a bit like a Vulcan and doesn't make mistakes. While I consider this rather fondly, I couldn't number how many times my associates at work have threatened to buy a pair of pointed ears for me... whether Star Trek comes up in conversation or not.

Does anybody relate? Perhaps I might put it this way; am I a normal Trekkie or is there something unnaturally extreme about my inability to extract the principles of Star Trek from my daily life?

 

[T'Bonz]

As a lonely teen, Spock made me realize that I wasn't the only one struggling to fit in. It was a heartening thing to realize, that I wasn't alone. And I hadn't really thought much about logic vs. emotion. Spock came to terms with his emotional half. I learned that it's OK to be emotional and that it makes a better person to not be either all emotional or all logical.

Spock was only one of the things that attracted me to Star Trek back then. The other two things were: the hope that we'd get past our warring selves and not nuke ourselves, and also that I found the future and speculation on how we'd be living to be really interesting.

 

[zenophite]

I don't relate to Spock at all nor do i find the character particularly informing, personally

I find myself facing questions that most people wouldn't think to ask because of Star Trek; Is it logical to eat animals and use products which come from them if they are our evolutionary relatives?

There is nothing particularly logical or illogical about this. Logic is a systematic method of reasoning. One of my many gripes with Trek is the loopy ideas that people get about what logic actually is - the way it is portrayed in trek it seems as though Vulcan "logic" is more a sort of left-leaning humanistic philosophy.

In another TOS episode which I cannot remember the name of, he also is quoted saying "What is wrong with me... I have eaten animal flesh, and enjoyed it."

again, there is nothing inherently logical or illogical about eating animal flesh - this is a personal judgment based on a personal philosophy. A logical argument can be made for either positition.

Furthermore, when you think about the value of logic - you ultimately have to come to the conclusion that feeling - which is the bread and butter of humanity - is also the cause of it's pain, and it's biggest threat.
I find myself divided between an appreciation for logic and a desire to be human... to the point of feeling like I'm going to drive myself to ruin sometimes.

Your statements seem to lean a bit toward the dramatic. Again what exactly do you mean by 'logic' ? Logic and emotion are not the converse of each other.

With discipline, I've found that I can live my life more or less free of mistakes; it is possible to say the right things, do the right things - to simply melt all of life down to the principle of collecting data and analyzing it; and yet to do so I must give up the emotional element that humanity relates to.

Most human beings have emotional needs that must be met. Suppressing emotional interaction for the sake of some ideal based on a science fiction show is liable to have a detrimental effect on your ability to deal with emotions and the development of your personality. what sort of mistakes are you talking about? What is the 'data' that you are collecting? data collection is not 'logic'. Logic is inference.

Your average person would rather work with somebody that has a productivity rate of 50% and a "vibrant" personality than they would work with someone who acts a bit like a Vulcan and doesn't make mistakes.

I'm not sure what correlation there is between emotion and making 'mistakes.' Nor do I understand what relationship you are trying to establish between 'emotion' and productivity. Many studies have show that a comfortable friendly atmosphere actually increase worker happiness and thus productivity.

While I consider this rather fondly, I couldn't number how many times my associates at work have threatened to buy a pair of pointed ears for me... whether Star Trek comes up in conversation or not.

If people really do say this then you are standing out in a way that may not really benefit you.

am I a normal Trekkie or is there something unnaturally extreme about my inability to extract the principles of Star Trek from my daily life?

On the whole I find that basing your personal philosophy and, more to the point, your interactions with others on a science fiction alien to be less than ideal.

 

[Michael]

^ Oh boy, nitpicky much?

 

[zenophite]

^ Oh boy, nitpicky much?

not really.

 

[EnsignJulka]

I find that I do relate to Spock in many ways, hence why I'm a trekkie...

 

[Outpost4]

Yeah, sometimes, but I'm really more of a Kirk kind of guy.

I think you got to be careful about this. It is a classic, identifying with a fictional character, wanting some of their qualities. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I can remember realizing that I'm not Kirk, and that I'll never be. It was a young man's wake-up call. I needed to make my own world. It's my final frontier, too.

And Joshua, remember, you're half-human. Don't deny your humanity. It's OK to be emotional at the right time. In fact, I'd say it's good.

 

[Outpost4]

It's Simon & Garfunkel, not Star Trek, but I've always thought this was the perfect expression of a person too closed down.

I Am A Rock

Paul Simon

A winters day
In a deep and dark december;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and its loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Dont talk of love,
I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I wont disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

 

[Joshua Howard]

Yeah, sometimes, but I'm really more of a Kirk kind of guy.

I think you got to be careful about this. It is a classic, identifying with a fictional character, wanting some of their qualities. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I can remember realizing that I'm not Kirk, and that I'll never be. It was a young man's wake-up call. I needed to make my own world. It's my final frontier, too.

And Joshua, remember, you're half-human. Don't deny your humanity. It's OK to be emotional at the right time. In fact, I'd say it's good.

Two-thirds human actually. The human brain - as most may know - possesses the equivilent of two microprocessors; one which controls instinctive and impulsive behavior, and another which controls reason and intellectual behavior. The instinctive part of our brain is more powerful than it's other half - which is why it is more natural to act emotionally in any given situation than it is to think in an organized manner. Try telling a hysterical man to calm down, and he'll become even more upset - in spite of the fact that the logical approach would be for him to overcome his emotions.

As somebody pointed out, most anything can be logical if one chooses for it to be. For the good of one's self only, destroying somebody's life in exchange for a bad turn might be logical. For the good of a nation, world domination can be logical. (Hitler thought so) For the good of the world, peace may be logical; for the ultimate good... what is logical? Much like someone who says "Why am I here" - to which another replies "You are here because of God." The next question invarably is "Why is God there?" and really - you can't come up with any explanation for the value of existance unless you presume that existence itself is the reason for itself... a thought that transcends all thought.

I think that more than a TV show, the entire phenomena gives me a chance to concentrate my thinking on what the real foundation of logic is. I don't know if anyone (myself included) is evolved enough to conclude that question, but nevertheless... I have a hunch that there will come a time when humanity does find the answer to it, and transcends it's own existence thereby. At any rate, who I am is - likely - immaterial in the scope of - so to speak - the ultimate question, which... sometimes I wonder if I look too hard in the pursuit of.

 

[zenophite]

Two-thirds human actually. The human brain - as most may know - possesses the equivilent of two microprocessors; one which controls instinctive and impulsive behavior, and another which controls reason and intellectual behavior.

This pop psychology view of brain function is not entirely accurate. The brain's relationship to a microprocessor is also often overstated. While there is laterization of brain functions the left often gets a bulk of the reasoning functions while the right gets the artistic and spatial reasoning tasks. However keep in mind that the brain is not that delineated in its delegation of tasks.
the instinctive part of our brain is the oldest and most fundamental and often called the reptilian brain the higher reasoning functions that distinguish humans from other creatures are part of the neocortex.

The instinctive part of our brain is more powerful than it's other half - which is why it is more natural to act emotionally in any given situation than it is to think in an organized manner.

The reason emotional responses are so powerful is that the emotional part of the brain is older are far closer to the root of brain function - cognitive abilities are relatively new and lie on a higher level than the more basic functions. however the instinctive brain and emotional brain are not necessarily the same thing.

Try telling a hysterical man to calm down, and he'll become even more upset - in spite of the fact that the logical approach would be for him to overcome his emotions.

that is because the flight or fight response triggered by stress takes precedence over the need to reason.

As somebody pointed out, most anything can be logical if one chooses for it to be. For the good of one's self only, destroying somebody's life in exchange for a bad turn might be logical. For the good of a nation, world domination can be logical. (Hitler thought so) For the good of the world, peace may be logical; for the ultimate good... what is logical? Much like someone who says "Why am I here" - to which another replies "You are here because of God." The next question invarably is "Why is God there?" and really - you can't come up with any explanation for the value of existance unless you presume that existence itself is the reason for itself... a thought that transcends all thought.

I think that more than a TV show, the entire phenomena gives me a chance to concentrate my thinking on what the real foundation of logic is.

Again it's not really clear what you mean by logic. If you are really interested in logic then I recommend you read about Frege, Russell, and other big names in mathematical logic and philosophy.

I don't know if anyone (myself included) is evolved enough to conclude that question, but nevertheless... I have a hunch that there will come a time when humanity does find the answer to it, and transcends it's own existence thereby.
At any rate, who I am is - likely - immaterial in the scope of - so to speak - the ultimate question, which... sometimes I wonder if I look too hard in the pursuit of.

If you don't mind my asking about what age age group do you belong?

 

[Joshua Howard]

I am 19.

 

[Sulu's Lover]

Nice........

 

[Kryton]

I have had severe gastrointestinal issues since childhood (two major surgeries...still not entirely "corrected").

As such, the scene of Spock BY HIMSELF in The Naked Time has resonated with me MANY times over the past 30+ years.

I AM A VULCAN. THERE IS NO PAIN.

How frequently I have used that mantra to get me through physical difficulties.

 

[TrekNut87]

As someone with a disability, I can relate to Spock in regard to feeling like an outsider and struggling to fit in with the "normal" crowd and trying to figure out where I belong. Seeing Spock struggle through the same thing was very comforting to me because it let me know that I wasn't the only one dealing with the issue.

 

[EEE]

To the original question... no. But when Star Trek originally aired, I tried to convince my mother to change my name to Kirk. Like a good mother, she humored me and replied that was fine. I didn't realize until years later, that it wasn't "Kirk" who was called to dinner that night (talk about being Corbomitely Maneuvered!).

 

[Capt.April]

Coming from another country to Canada I had a hard time with the two cultures so I initially related to Spock's dilema (human/vulcan) especially as it related to culture.
As I grew older I started to really relate to McCoy. His character was darker and seemed to more complicated, I always wondered what he was running away from?

Kirk of course was a combination of the two, as such probably the most well balanced of the three and of course the one I had the least in common with..

 

[maryh]

I think Spock was designed to be a character many of us could relate to. Particularly during the stormy times of your life - the teenaged years and early adulthood, there is a lot in Spock for us to relate to.

Of course if you always had a supportive, loving family, always made the basketball team and always had a date on Saturday, you might not be able to relate but for the rest there was Spock. He had family problems, he doesn't get along with his father, his social life is dead - he doesn't fit in anywhere, has few friends or confidants, his "love life" is a mess, he is lonely yet rejects everyone, his natural intelligence, interests and curiosity lead him toward "geekdom", he struggles with his head verses heart, fights his feelings, he is uncertain and unsure about his future. What young adult couldn't find something in there to relate to?

 

[hmbnimbus]

I most definitely find myself relating to Spock in one aspect of life particularly:

When idiots have their mobile (cell) phones blaring crap music at full volume sat on a crowded bus with absolutely no regard for the feelings of those around them, I envisage Spock nerve pinching the young "punk" and receiving a round of applause from fellow passengers.

Of course, if I was to actually tackle the ruffian, in this day and age I'd probably get stabbed and no-one on the bus would bat an eyelid....

Erm.....so....

Ah, I DO find myself relating to him in that I wished I could control my fear so I could have my very own TVH moment....

 

[doublegood]

I don't think it's illogical to eat meat. We're animals. We eat other animals and get nutrients from them. Other animals eat other animals. Problem?

 

[zenophite]

Of course, if I was to actually tackle the ruffian, in this day and age I'd probably get stabbed and no-one on the bus would bat an eyelid....
Erm.....so....
Ah, I DO find myself relating to him in that I wished I could control my fear so I could have my very own TVH moment....

Not to mentioned sued in this pantywaist society.