Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[cultcross]

The thing is, every other aesthetic change in TMP had an in-story explanation.

No, it didn't. Enterprise had a refit. OK, but that doesn't explain how every aspect of Starfleet's aesthetic and technology is totally different to TOS, only 3 years on. So is nearly everything about the Klingons apart from the shape of their ships, not just the make-up. They even have their own language we've never heard before. We can come up with all sorts of fanon to explain it, but on screen it was just there. It doesn't matter - TMP is a different production made significantly later, it should be updated. They made a movie for the seventies, and an expensive one at that. Not a TV show for the sixties. But the only way they 'fit together' is that we all just accept that they do, or make up our own explanations. Trek fans have had to do this for years, like reconciling the Borg of First Contact with the Borg of the series, but our ability seems to switch off when we don't want to do it.

 

[cooleddie74]

your idea of what's smart baffles me

Well. To each their own.

 

[SPCTRE]

this poll is still mental

 

[cooleddie74]

51.8% is shockingly low. This should have been a Vladimir Putin-style runaway landslide.

In Russia, alternate universe believes in you.

 

[BillJ]

Your life quality really depended on an explanation for Klingon forhead bumps? Is that really what you're trying to tell me?

No. And I think you know that. Trying to come up with insane comebacks is a sign one's argument is weak. It is also disingenuous to claim that no one cared about the change in the Klingons, when people very clearly did and from the moment the change happened.

 

[Hythlodeus]

We lived perfectly fine for decades without explanation

Though we didn't, not really.

Then how else do you interpret this exchange?

 

[BillJ]

Then how else do you interpret this exchange?

As saying exactly what my point was: Star Trek fans wanted an explanation for the change from the moment it happened. Fans didn't just go "oh, well" like you said and went on our merry way. The Klingon change from TMP was always a point of contention and always had people coming up with explanations for the change.

 

[Hythlodeus]

As saying exactly what my point was: Star Trek fans wanted an explanation for the change from the moment it happened. Fans didn't just go "oh, well" like you said and went on our merry way. The Klingon change from TMP was always a point of contention and always had people coming up with explanations for the change.

Some might, maybe. Almost all Trek fans I knew just accepted the change and went on with their lives. The sad bunch you describe, I don't know if they were a majority, but if, not a big one

 

[BillJ]

The sad bunch you describe...

Why do you keep trying to insult people that see things differently than you?

 

[Hythlodeus]

Why do you keep trying to insult people that see things differently than you?

I'm not insulting them, I'm showing compassion

 

[jaime]

I'm not insulting them, I'm showing compassion

You’re really not.
Aggressive. Adverserial. To borrow a line.

Anyway, ENT did the Augment eps, so I guess someone somewhere fancied an explanation.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm not insulting them, I'm showing compassion

Lmao, no you're not.

If you think you're showing compassion, I think you need to go read a dictionary.

Boba Fett as the model for the Storm Troopers, etc.

What? No he wasn't.

 

[jaime]

I'm assuming you think that's a contradiction somehow, but I see a consistent thought process. Changes to makeup, costumes, visuals etc to move with the times and budgets don't require in universe explanations, either for TMP Klingons, or for DSC changes. They're just different, because the creators are doing something else now. Just as it was with all the other times that Trek changed things without comment.

Are we really suggesting we need an in universe explanation, maybe a two parter, for why Trill are spotty in the Take My Hand era, bumpy in TNG, then spotty again in DS9? Or shall we just accept the fact that they changed the makeup because Terry Farrell looked weird in the bumps?

Hah, thought I saw a Trill in that ep.

 

[cultcross]

I'm not insulting them, I'm showing compassion

The sad bunch

A little bit less compassion like this, please. You can disagree without insulting people.

 

[jaime]

No, it didn't. Enterprise had a refit. OK, but that doesn't explain how every aspect of Starfleet's aesthetic and technology is totally different to TOS, only 3 years on. So is nearly everything about the Klingons apart from the shape of their ships, not just the make-up. They even have their own language we've never heard before. We can come up with all sorts of fanon to explain it, but on screen it was just there. It doesn't matter - TMP is a different production made significantly later, it should be updated. They made a movie for the seventies, and an expensive one at that. Not a TV show for the sixties. But the only way they 'fit together' is that we all just accept that they do, or make up our own explanations. Trek fans have had to do this for years, like reconciling the Borg of First Contact with the Borg of the series, but our ability seems to switch off when we don't want to do it.

The bigger jump for head scratching is the downgrade in tech for TWOK. But people’s love TWOK, so we ignore the silly. Same for TUC.

 

[Hythlodeus]

Lmao, no you're not.

I am, those poor souls whose well beings so clearly depend on in-universe explanations for make-up changes. I feel sorry for them. If that's important for them, I can't even imagine how the rest of their lives are.

seriously, of all the things to obsess over, this might be the saddest thing I ever witnessed

 

[Tuskin38]

I am, those poor souls whose well beings so clearly depend on in-universe explanations for make-up changes. I feel sorry for them. If that's important for them, I can't even imagine how the rest of their lives are.

seriously, of all the things to obsess over, this might be the saddest thing I ever witnessed

Clearly you don't.

 

[jaime]

I am, those poor souls whose well beings so clearly depend on in-universe explanations for make-up changes. I feel sorry for them. If that's important for them, I can't even imagine how the rest of their lives are.

seriously, of all the things to obsess over, this might be the saddest thing I ever witnessed

And yet you exist here.

 

[fireproof78]

The thing is, every other aesthetic change in TMP had an in-story explanation. Only the Klingons didn't. You're positing that we should've just accepted them as a retcon, but I never found that approach satisfying.

No, they didn't. Dramatic changes in 3 years didn't have an explanation. Spock opting to leave Starfleet completely for a previously unknown Vulcan ceremony was apparently not known to his shipmates, given their reaction to seeing him. Kirk's insisting on doing everything ends up going disastrously wrong, making him look like a first year cadet rather than a seasoned officer. Is 3 years behind a desk sufficient explanation?

If all of this is sufficiently explained in TMP, then why is DISCO outside of canon for adding in similar changes ten years removed?

 

[Nyotarules]

Certainly the Discovery aesthetic is depressing and ugly where stuff like Paris is concerned. That said, given that the city has apparently become the capital of a galactic civilization it's not hard to imagine that the attendant demands of that role might overwhelm centuries of history and tradition.

Present day Paris has a population of 2 million. Star Trek Paris should have a population of present day London - at least 8 million if not 10 million. All those off worlders, Star Trek New York must be jealous!