Poll Do You Believe STD Is Actually a Reboot [After Seeing It]?

[Tim Thomason]

Show me one thing in TMP that resembled the old television series, aside from the classic shuttlecraft added in the 2001 edition.

Not one computer display, uniform, prop, ship or anything remained unchanged.

The cast. They didn't recast anyone in TMP, and in fact promoted everyone and acknowledged that they had moved on from where they were previously. The same thing with Wrath of Khan (minus some minor re-used props when they ran out of money).

Reboots generally don't use the same cast and set themselves further in the future.

 

[BillJ]

We saw her eager to go back to prison. We saw her see through Lorca. We saw her take the initiative on the away mission to the Glenn, and risk her own life to save the others.

We saw her stand up to Lorca and stand by her ideals.

All those happened in the third episode. The talk was about the first two.

 

[Albinator]

Tastes vary, and I'm not going to slag on you for liking Burnham. That said, I don't see how you can say her actions are what makes her interesting, when the first two episodes spent much more time telling us how special she was (flashbacks, communication with Sarek via subspace and then Katra vision, etc) than actually showing us her actions.

Worth noting that the things you criticize are not the things I find interesting about her. That she is so-called "special" as you describe it (which is not what I took from those scenes), that she is a great officer, is not what I find interesting.

 

[Albinator]

All those happened in the third episode. The talk was about the first two.

When did I say it was just about the first two? I didn't realize the character stopped existing after the premiere! My bad, bro!

 

[Kemaiku]

Really?

Yup, when Kirk arrives at the San Francisco shuttle port, a TOS shuttlepod takes off.

 

[Albinator]

When did I say it was just about the first two? I didn't realize the character stopped existing after the premiere! My bad, bro!

But you're also wrong. The mutiny and accepting punishment were in "Battle of the Binary Stars." Her plan to capture the Klingon leader, it going wrong and her killing T'Kuvma, all in the premiere 2-parter.

 

[eschaton]

Because we saw her make choices. She chose to defy order, mutiny, and accept punishment. We saw her eager to go back to prison. We saw her see through Lorca. We saw her take the initiative on the away mission to the Glenn, and risk her own life to save the others.

We saw her stand up to Lorca and stand by her ideals.

But keep cherry picking.

As noted, I'm discussing the first two episodes here. I think her character improved in the third episode. So much so that I would like her character if had only seen that episode. But in episodes one and two, we see her make almost nothing but bad decisions. I mean, we know she must make some good ones, since the story tells us that she was a competent Starfleet officer who worked her way up to XO and was on her way to command. But we didn't get to see her actually make good decisions. That's why the prologue structure was a mistake IMHO. It should have been doled out in flashbacks, or they should have had a season with her on board the Shenzhou acting as a model officer to build up the character before the fall.

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Not a reboot, but a black ops, sidebar, a cheat that allows for the tech, previously unknown aliens being known

 

[Tuskin38]

Yep, taking off from Starfleet HQ at the start.

Yup, when Kirk arrives at the San Francisco shuttle port, a TOS shuttlepod takes off.

Ah

 

[Kemaiku]

Yeah, they didn't make it that easy to catch, especially in 2001 720 "HD"

 

[Kor]

Show me one thing in TMP that resembled the old television series, aside from the classic shuttlecraft added in the 2001 edition.

Not one computer display, uniform, prop, ship or anything remained unchanged.

Sleeve rank braids, and the propensity for meaningless blinking jelly lights all over the bridge.

Yeah, they didn't make it that easy to catch, especially in 2001 720 "HD"

The TMP-DE was never rendered in any HD resolution; only SD. The one and only theatrical exhibition of the DE was a projection of the DVD.

Kor

 

[Albinator]

As noted, I'm discussing the first two episodes here. I think her character improved in the third episode. So much so that I would like her character if had only seen that episode. But in episodes one and two, we see her make almost nothing but bad decisions.

Which takes nothing away from my point. Some complain she's too much a Mary Sue, but characters aren't interesting simply because they're always right and make all the right decisions. Her making bad decisions is what makes her interesting to me. She's flawed.

I mean, we know she must make some good ones, since the story tells us that she was a competent Starfleet officer who worked her way up to XO and was on her way to command. But we didn't get to see her actually make good decisions.

And if we'd started the series at Episode 3 as many have said should have been, we'd have never seen her make the bad ones. The story has to start somewhere. We didn't get to see Picard aboard the Stargazer saving the day-- were only told about it-- we didn't get to see Riker overruling his Captain on the Hood-- were only told about it-- we didn't get to see Tom Paris' troubled past, or Odo's work with the Cardassians (not in the first two episodes).

That's why the prologue structure was a mistake IMHO.

And that's exactly why I liked it.

[

It should have been doled out in flashbacks, or they should have had a season with her on board the Shenzhou acting as a model officer to build up the character before the fall.

Yes, I'm sure that would have made you happy and you'd have had no complaints, and would have loved the character. Eye roll.

 

[Prax]

If TMP is a reboot, then so is First Contact, but I'll give you one thing. The Klingon ships; which appear in TOS, TAS, TMP, TUC, TNG, and Voyager, and possibly DS9.

The cast. They didn't recast anyone in TMP, and in fact promoted everyone and acknowledged that they had moved on from where they were previously. The same thing with Wrath of Khan (minus some minor re-used props when they ran out of money).

Reboots generally don't use the same cast and set themselves further in the future.

Sleeve rank braids, and the propensity for meaningless blinking jelly lights all over the bridge.

That's FOUR things, Mr. King of the Daniels! What say you?

I can not believe people are claiming it wasn't.

Allow me to understand. Your position is that Discovery is not a reboot, but The Motion Picture is?

You, sir, have entered a valley called contradiction.

 

[eschaton]

Which takes nothing away from my point. Some complain she's too much a Mary Sue, but characters aren't interesting simply because they're always right and make all the right decisions. Her making bad decisions is what makes her interesting to me. She's flawed.

Maybe it's just a personal issue I have, but I really have a problem watching poor decisions in television. I don't mean making decisions I would disagree with, but ones which are self-destructive from the POV of the character. For example, when i was a kid I hated comedies where you could tell things were being set up for a big embarrassing spectacle, because I would feel the embarassment myself, and thus want to shut off the TV. When Burnham mutinied, I literally cringed, because it was unpleasant to watch. Maybe it was "good" but it didn't make me feel good.

Yes, I'm sure that would have made you happy and you'd have had no complaints, and would have loved the character. Eye roll.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Allow me to understand. Your position is that Discovery is not a reboot, but The Motion Picture is?

You, sir, have entered a valley called contradiction.

A visual reboot, yes. An update to the look and TMP was a huge one, as big a one as we have here.

 

[Albinator]

For what it's worth (and I'm not quite following the convo so apologies) but TMP almost recast Spock when Nimoy didn't want in. Robin Curtis stepped into the role of Saavik in STIII.

Recasting actors, particularly ones who are dead, or for characters who are younger versions than what we've seen, doesn't make something a reboot.

 

[Prax]

If TMP was a "visual reboot," than every movie was a "visual reboot," especially First Contact, and the term reboot is rendered even more meaningless than it already is.

If you want to call it anything, call it a sequel. It's a sequel to the TV show. It's the same people picking up a few years later. Same creator, same ship. They didn't "reboot" Kirk as an Admiral. The dude got a promotion. And they didn't make a new Enterprise and say "This is what the Enterprise really looks like." They said "The Enterprise has undergone a refit. An overhaul" which is still going on when the film starts. And if changing the uniforms constitutes a "visual reboot," Then TNG, DS9, and even Voyager were rebooted during their runs.

The only thing that was "reimagined" was the bumps on the Klingin foreheads, but they still fly the exact same ships as in TOS, and TAS, still wear the sash, still act all macho, etc.

Then TNG continued using the various ships used in the first six movies. When they(TNG) wanted to depict 23rd century interiors, they rebuilt them as they were and showed them on screen. When TNG wanted to depict SF uniforms from the Kirk era, they used the same ones.

 

[Spider]

I'm waiting on the explanation we're supposed to receive later this season on why it isn't a reboot, 'cause it sure looks like one to me. Not that I care, really. Reboots can be fun.

 

[CorporalClegg]

She's complex, she's layered, and her relationships are diverse and I feel like there is so much to explore. Lorca is also an emerging favorite. It's no coincidence that both of my favorite characters are the once with complexity and secrets. I want to know more.

No.

 

[fireproof78]

A visual reboot, yes. An update to the look and TMP was a huge one, as big a one as we have here.

Agreed, especially with regards to the Klingons.