Countless times we have heard Spock say that he cannot tell a lie. I think he implied that Vulcan do not lie. Yet in ENT season 1 episode 7, “The Andorian Incident” the Vulcan monk clearly tells multiple lies about what is and is not going on at the monastery. One might guess they only lie occasionally!
Do Vulcans tell lies?
- Thread starter davelh
- Start date
I suppose they have some kind of logical doublespeak for what a lie is and is not.
Untrue. The one and only time Spock has actually said "Vulcans cannot lie" onscreen was in Star Trek Into Darkness (unless he's said it in Strange New Worlds, since I don't know where to find transcripts for that). In "The Doomsday Machine," he did say "Vulcans never bluff," but that's not quite the same thing. In "The Enterprise Incident," the Romulan Commander asked "There's a well-known saying, or is it a myth, that Vulcans are incapable of lying?", to which Spock replies "It is no myth." That's an ambiguous statement at best, and Spock said it during a spy mission where he was unambiguously lying to the Romulan Commander throughout the entire episode, so we obviously were not meant to take him at his word. There were his exchanges with Saavik and Valeris in the movies, where he handwaved his outright lies as exaggeration and error, but again, we obviously were not meant to take his rationalizations literally; on the contrary, they were deadpan humor.
Beyond TOS, in DS9: "The Maquis Part 2," Gul Dukat skeptically asks "Because Vulcans don't lie?" and Sisko replies "As a rule, they don't" -- confirming implicitly that there are exceptions to that rule. Otherwise, ENT: "Shadows of P'Jem" mentions Vulcans' "reputation for truthfulness," but that's part of a story arc involving the Vulcan government illegally spying on Andoria.
As Archer said in ENT: "The Forge," "Vulcans can lie and cheat with the best of them." As a cultural norm, they prefer to report information accurately and advance a rational, unbiased, fact-based understanding of the universe, hence their reputation for truthfulness; a lack of concern for others' hurt feelings may be a factor in their lack of deception as well. But they are as capable of anyone else of engaging in deceit when they have a reason to do so.
If they deem it logical to do so, then I see no reason why a Vulcan would not lie.
But, a Vulcan might tell the truth when a human might lie. If you get a really bad haircut and ask a Vulcan and a human how you look, the human would tell the polite white lie and say "good", while the Vulcan would say that it was aesthetically displeasing. Because it's not logical to have you believe that an unattractive look is attractive.
But, a Vulcan might tell the truth when a human might lie. If you get a really bad haircut and ask a Vulcan and a human how you look, the human would tell the polite white lie and say "good", while the Vulcan would say that it was aesthetically displeasing. Because it's not logical to have you believe that an unattractive look is attractive.
You can count on a Vulcan not to be tactful unless you ask them to be, and not to be harm you by withholding the truth.
My guess is that Vulcans have a reputation for bluntness and candor, but the Vulcan reputation not lying probably came from a misunderstanding or was itself a lie.
Spock and Tuvok, for instance, have both gone undercover, which is by nature an act of deception.
Spock and Tuvok, for instance, have both gone undercover, which is by nature an act of deception.
Norman, coordinate.
How could Tuvok have went undercover with the Maquis without at some point lying?
He would either had to have lied outright about his background and intentions, or at the very least allowed a bunch of lies of omission where he left out important information and allowed false inferences.
There's also the Vulcan gangster in Picard season 3. Crime is not usually an area of money-making where perfect candor is profitable or good for staying out of jail.
He would either had to have lied outright about his background and intentions, or at the very least allowed a bunch of lies of omission where he left out important information and allowed false inferences.
There's also the Vulcan gangster in Picard season 3. Crime is not usually an area of money-making where perfect candor is profitable or good for staying out of jail.
Tuvok "As a Vulcan, I am at all times honest, Commander."
Chakotay "That's not exactly true. You lied to me when you passed yourself off as a Maquis to get on my crew."
Tuvok "I was honest to my own convictions within the defined parameters of my mission."
Vulcans don't lie. They have been known to exaggerate, omit, prevaricate, and dissemble though.
Chakotay "That's not exactly true. You lied to me when you passed yourself off as a Maquis to get on my crew."
Tuvok "I was honest to my own convictions within the defined parameters of my mission."
Vulcans don't lie. They have been known to exaggerate, omit, prevaricate, and dissemble though.
You know who Spock lies to the most? Himself.
Don't forget con, snowjob, fool, trick, stretch the truth, and just plain bull-
.
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure I wrote that.
But, yes, Vulcans can absolutely lie . . . if they have a logical reason to do so.
They may find it distasteful, they may have a cultural taboo against doing so, but it's not as though they're incapable of it. And they're not above using that myth to their own advantage at times.
Heck, remember Spock posing as a "trader in kevas and trillium" in "Errand of Mercy"?
IIEC, there was one time on Voyager when Seven asked Tuvok about Vulcans not telling lies, which he explained as if there's a logical reason for doing so, they can and will.
Similar threads
