Do Marvel's characters work better in movies than DC's?

[Temis the Vorta]

The problem with Supes is that he has zero personality.

What a misguided assessment. Every character has a personality. It may not be a personality you like or prefer, but he still has one.

Is "being boring" a personality? Then fine, he has a personality.

@Temis...you say that Superman doesn't have any personality. What experience with the character do you have that would make you claim that?

I'm actually curious what you would suggest would make a good Superman movie.

Watching part of the Reeves movies (until I got too bored to finish them) and watching various episodes of Smallville (mainly for characters like Lex and Chloe, certainly not for Clark), which also bored me too much to watch more than four or five eps. I've made various attempts to read the comic books. I've never seen any iteration of Superman that could hold my interest for very long. If he has a personality beyond "boring blank," I've never noticed it.

I have no idea what would make a good Superman movie. I think the problem with the character is that he's intentionally boring - a blank canvas on which the reader/audience can project an adolescent power fantasy - so to make him interesting would require destroying the character in the process.

Christopher Reeve had a unique ability to make being boring seem interesting, if that makes any sense. Even tho Supes has no personality, somehow Reeve managed to project something, maybe just his personal charisma. I still found the character too boring to watch, but I gotta admit, Reeve was probably the ideal person to cast in the role, and not just for his looks.

However, that kind of ability is rare. I don't think Henry Cavil is going to be any better in the role than the last guy was. It's an impossible role for most actors.

 

[Anwar]

Is he any more boring than, say, Captain America? Cap is all the same in the "Truth and justice" schtick but still comes off as an interesting character.

 

[The Old Mixer]

No one complained about the machine that could evaporate water until after TDK (at least in my experience).

I distinctly remember that very point getting a lot of negative attention in these parts when BB was fresh in the theaters.

 

[Anwar]

So what, BB can't get away with the water vaporizer but TDK gets away with the sonic cellphone 3-D map? And the Joker somehow pre-planning everything to a hilt?

 

[Myasishchev]

The problem with Supes is that he has zero personality.

What a misguided assessment. Every character has a personality. It may not be a personality you like or prefer, but he still has one.

No kidding. Like, you can do that thing where you describe a character without mentioning their job or physical attributes, and get a list as long as your arm. Gentle, brave, open-minded, funny but not too funny, because to be too funny is necessarily to be mean, yet finds bossy, sarcastic women attractive, vegetarian, pacifist, slightly prefers justice to truth.

If that's the case, maybe an origin story is a bad idea. Just have him established and part of a team. Then have him work to do his part to save Earth, but as part of a bigger plot across the galaxy.

ETA: Reading through the thread, it appears I was just beat on the idea.

Still a good idea.

I'm not overly familiar with Green Lantern and it occurred to me that it would be the way to go (I agree that Hal Jordan himself isn't all that interesting - I think that's clear just from people who describe him). It's a shame that's not what they did. Maybe if they did a second movie, they'd have better luck (but I get the impression it would just be like the Fantastic Four movies).

Hal Jordan was reasonably interesting at one point, from the late 1970s till 1994. Back in the day, he was a tremendous fuck-up, from the mundane (he spent 90 days in jail for a DUI) to comic book apocalyptic (he killed all his coworkers and tried to remake the universe). It's only since he was brought back to life and every Hal Jordan story became about how he's the Greatest Man Who Ever Lived that he got kind of bland.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It almost seems Ryan Reynolds was an attempt to have a milder version of that (judging from the trailer, I didn't see the movie).

As for Superman, he doesn't have self-destructive behavior, which is my guess of what she's referring to. As Clark Kent, he's gentle and unassuming. As Superman, he's powerful and has gravitas. It's a strength of personality that draws you to him. But he's not the kind of character that makes for an interesting soap opera. But Superman generally isn't a story of overcoming adversity. It's about the Man of Steel saving the day.

 

[Yminale]

Is he any more boring than, say, Captain America? Cap is all the same in the "Truth and justice" schtick but still comes off as an interesting character.

That's because Cap's nobility is done without irony. We're so use to our heroes being cynical that when one comes along that's completely straight, it seems novel.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Is he any more boring than, say, Captain America? Cap is all the same in the "Truth and justice" schtick but still comes off as an interesting character.

That's because Cap's nobility is done without irony. We're so use to our heroes being cynical that when one comes along that's completely straight, it seems novel.

It probably helps that he isn't a virtually indestructable god-like being as well.

 

[Yminale]

I have no idea what would make a good Superman movie.

I think that's the general problem with all superheroes, in all media. It's basically either spectacle and/or internal reflection on why a guy wears tights and beats up thugs. It's always some variation on those two themes.

One of the opportunities they missed in Superman Returns is to explore Clark Kent. Reeves made a great Superman but he was a one note Clark Kent (basically a bumbling nerd). Brandon Roth definitely could have developed the character if Singer wasn't so busy deifying Superman.

Christopher Reeve had a unique ability to make being boring seem interesting, if that makes any sense.

Well that's called charisma

 

[Myasishchev]

It almost seems Ryan Reynolds was an attempt to have a milder version of that (judging from the trailer, I didn't see the movie).

Well, who did, right?

As for Superman, he doesn't have self-destructive behavior, which is my guess of what she's referring to.

Not dropping Lex Luthor off a building because of flawed moral reasoning may count as self-destructive.

Anyway, Cap's all right, although I dislike how he's unable to hold any sort of political opinion beyond stuff any sane person agrees with, like "racism is bad" and "fascism sucks."

Even borin' ol' Superman gets to hold weird, outsider opinions, like "worship of an alien sun god" or "killing is always wrong." Does Steve Rogers even have a faith?

 

[Yminale]

Anyway, Cap's all right, although I dislike how he's unable to hold any sort of political opinion beyond stuff any sane person agrees with, like "racism is bad" and "fascism sucks."

Are you talking about Cap in the comics or in the movie? In the comic Cap definitely is a liberal. I mean he did lead the anti-Registration faction in the Civil War just on principle.

Does Steve Rogers even have a faith?

Yes, he loves America even with all it's flaws. (I also believe he's at least half Jewish but that's a heretical position)

 

[Myasishchev]

Anyway, Cap's all right, although I dislike how he's unable to hold any sort of political opinion beyond stuff any sane person agrees with, like "racism is bad" and "fascism sucks."

Are you talking about Cap in the comics or in the movie? In the comic Cap definitely is a liberal. I mean he did lead the anti-Registration faction in the Civil War just on principle.

Well, okay, Cap can have controversial opinions on made-up issues. But, yeah, I was generalizing too much just to be snappy. There's probably an issue where Cap says gay marriage is cool. And there is that issue where Falcon is really, really uncomfortable being at a Tea Party rally. (On the other hand, that's the one where Marvel apologized for a "rogue letterer," iirc.)

Adherents sez Cap's "Protestant." That doesn't really mean anything.

Superman, by contrast, is Methodist. I guess I knew that, but I usually think of him as Jewish (nominally, anyway, he's probably a pantheist or something odd, and I always sort of assumed the Kryptonian religion stuff was a bit of a pose). This is probably because of all the Moses imagery, and Siegel and Shuster.

 

[Silent_Bob]

I've not had net access for a while, so i didnt know Green Lantern was considered a failure, did it flop in cinemas?

Personally i found it successful in that i bought a Green Lantern comic for the first time after watching it, which is something i would never have considered doing in the past.

Superman strikes me as a character that no film has really done justice to yet. The Reeves films did nothing for me really, and Singer turned him into a creepy stalker that sneaks into kids bedrooms.

 

[Myasishchev]

I've not had net access for a while, so i didnt know Green Lantern was considered a failure, did it flop in cinemas?

Sorta. I think it didn't meet expectations. I'm not sure if it's actually going to wind up being technically unprofitable.

Superman strikes me as a character that no film has really done justice to yet. The Reeves films did nothing for me really, and Singer turned him into a creepy stalker that sneaks into kids bedrooms.

It was his kid! So while still totally illegal, it's not as creepy as otherwise.

 

[Yminale]

Well, okay, Cap can have controversial opinions on made-up issues. But, yeah, I was generalizing too much just to be snappy. There's probably an issue where Cap says gay marriage is cool.

I believe there is an actually an issue where he supports gay marriage.

That being said. I think it's fine that Cap is apolitical (Steve Roger is not). Cap represents all that is good about American and our political disagreements are certainly not our high point. I think Cap understands that him weighing in would unbalance our political system. The military has the same attitude (except when it comes to their budget) and God Bless them for that.

Adherents sez Cap's "Protestant." That doesn't really mean anything.

Scrappy kid from Brooklyn is code word for Jewish. Everybody uses that cliche, even Philip Roth. That's what makes Cap so AWESOME. He's the Nazis ubermensch but he hates their guts and he's Jewish (at least half).

 

[Myasishchev]

I thought scrappy kid from Brooklyn meant Italian.

 

[Yminale]

I thought scrappy kid from Brooklyn meant Italian.

No, scrappy kid from Queens or the Bronx is Italian.

 

[Broccoli]

Is he any more boring than, say, Captain America? Cap is all the same in the "Truth and justice" schtick but still comes off as an interesting character.

Exactly. Cap and Supes are generally cut from the same cloth in terms of personality. I find it somewhat ironic that Temis goes seemingly ga-ga over Cap, yet finds Supes boring.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It helps to have more of a period piece. The personality comes from the change of scenery.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I thought scrappy kid from Brooklyn meant Italian.

No, scrappy kid from Queens or the Bronx is Italian.

His Brooklyn roots are a recent addition. IIRC his background is Irish. (Also a recent addition)

Steve Rogers was born July 4, 1917, in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, New York City, to Irish immigrants Sarah and Joseph Rogers.[31]

Though oddly enough he also has an ancestor who fought in the Revolutionary War.