Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

[Kemaiku]

Um, the Basil Rathbone movies mashed together random elements of many of the stories and made a collection of stand alone movies from them.

And he was not the first actor to play the character on film, not event the 10th, there were several before him.

Jeremy Brett's long running 80's series did adapt each story in turn to television, but even they had changes and additions were necessary given how short many of the Holmes stories are.

There is no "canon" or "definitive" Holmes as each interpretation changes something from the books in some way.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Um, the Basil Rathbone movies mashed together random elements of many of the stories and made a collection of stand alone movies from them.

And your point is?

And he was not the first actor to play the character on film, not event the 10th, there were several before him.

[sarcasm]Oh, well that completely negates my point then...[/sarcasm]

There is no "canon" or "definitive" Holmes as each interpretation changes something from the books in some way.

Which is exactly my point. The same is true of each interpretation of Star Trek. We can pretend it "all fits together," just as we can pretend Nick Meyer's "Seven Per Cent Solution" is part of Conan Doyle's Holmes canon; but Nick Meyer's Holmes is no more valid an interpretation than the Holmes of the Rathbone movies or the animated series Sherlock Holmes in the 22nd Century.

 

[nightwind1]

Um, the Basil Rathbone movies mashed together random elements of many of the stories and made a collection of stand alone movies from them.

And he was not the first actor to play the character on film, not event the 10th, there were several before him.

Jeremy Brett's long running 80's series did adapt each story in turn to television, but even they had changes and additions were necessary given how short many of the Holmes stories are.

There is no "canon" or "definitive" Holmes as each interpretation changes something from the books in some way.

Kind of like Star Trek.

 

[Kemaiku]

Um, the Basil Rathbone movies mashed together random elements of many of the stories and made a collection of stand alone movies from them.

And he was not the first actor to play the character on film, not event the 10th, there were several before him.

Jeremy Brett's long running 80's series did adapt each story in turn to television, but even they had changes and additions were necessary given how short many of the Holmes stories are.

There is no "canon" or "definitive" Holmes as each interpretation changes something from the books in some way.

Kind of like Star Trek.

Sorry, I thought he was another one of the people trying to say there was only 'one true version of trek', we've been getting too many of them in here.

 

[Greg Cox]

Sorry, I thought he was another one of the people trying to say there was only 'one true version of trek', we've been getting too many of them in here.

It's not just Trek. I feel like I keep getting sucked into the same debate everywhere . . . regarding Trek, X-Men, Wonder Woman, Dracula, or whatever. No matter what "iconic" bit of pop culture is under discussion, you've got the purists and traditionalists insisting that some new version is not the "real" SPACE IGUANAS, or has taken too many liberties from the original source material, or is simply not close enough to the version they grew up on . . . .

Granted, I've been guilty of this myself on occasion. I gave up on the NIGHT STALKER reboot after one episode--and will go to my grave insisting that Diana Rigg is the one true Emma Peel . . .

 

[HaventGotALife]

I suggest re-reading through this thread. Everyone was complaining about old Star Trek before I put a point on it. "Star Trek wasn't fun anymore," "Star Trek was formulaic," "You want Rick Berman back?!"

Rick Berman is "old Star Trek?"

Rick Berman created and produced Star Trek spinoffs, which were based on Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek. They have as much to do with original Star Trek as JJ Abrams' movies, and are no more or less valid.

Sounds to me like you're more of a Rick Berman Trek fan than a Star Trek fan. There's nothing wrong with that, and I mean no offense by saying it; a lot of people grew up watching Trek spinoffs. But I see those shows related to Star Trek the same way Basil Rathbone's Sherlock Holmes movies are related to Conan Doyle's original stories. The Rathbone films were a legitimate vision of the character, but eventually you have to move on from them to keep the character alive in other equally valid interpretations. Nick Meyer, Rick Berman, and JJ Abrams have all produced their own interpretations of Star Trek, and if there's going to be a future for Star Trek, that needs to continue.

We cannot bring back Gene Roddenberry. He's a pile of bones, after being dead since 1991. I spent my youth yelling about how bad Rick Berman was, but I enjoy his versions of Trek more than the last two films. Berman worked with Roddenberry, as did Nick Meyer and Harve Bennett. I long for someone who doesn't hate Star Trek as it was before. Listening to Abrams, he thinks that the original series and every spinoff was "naive."

So, yes, you could equate the two. But one has respected what came before, the other hasn't. And judging by what he's done with the universe so far, I don't want to see the 24th century version of what he would do.

 

[bbjeg]

Just to reiterate, Prime Trek doesn't mean Berman Trek.

 

[BillJ]

Listening to Abrams, he thinks that the original series and every spinoff was "naive."

I'm sure you have actual evidence that is what he thinks? Or are you simply talking out of your ass?

 

[BillJ]

Just to reiterate, Prime Trek doesn't mean Berman Trek.

Since 75% of Prime Trek was made under Berman's watch, it does mean Berman Trek.

 

[Kelthaz]

I miss Berman Trek. The 24th century was the best.

 

[Greg Cox]

I miss Berman Trek. The 24th century was the best.

I'm more of a 23rd Century guy myself, but I suspect that's just a generational thing. I grew up on TOS, not the later shows, so it's still near and dear to my heart.

 

[borgboy]

I love all eras of ST, but being a child of the 80s, the 24th century is my favorite era.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I miss Berman Trek. The 24th century was the best.

I'm more of a 23rd Century guy myself, but I suspect that's just a generational thing. I grew up on TOS, not the later shows, so it's still near and dear to my heart.

Nah, I like the 23rd Century the most and I'm 25.

 

[Greg Cox]

I miss Berman Trek. The 24th century was the best.

I'm more of a 23rd Century guy myself, but I suspect that's just a generational thing. I grew up on TOS, not the later shows, so it's still near and dear to my heart.

Nah, I like the 23rd Century the most and I'm 25.

I stand corrected!

(Cool avatar, btw.)

 

[F. King Daniel]

I grew up with TNG and loved it to bits, but as I've aged I found myself liking it less and less - to the point where I quit halfway through re-watch (having previously rewatched and mostly enjoyed TOS, ENT and Voyager). Now TOS is definitely #1. I'm 29.

 

[bbjeg]

Just to reiterate, Prime Trek doesn't mean Berman Trek.

Since 75% of Prime Trek was made under Berman's watch, it does mean Berman Trek.

Regardless of how much of it was under Berman's watch, Prime Trek includes TOS and it's movies.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Just to reiterate, Prime Trek doesn't mean Berman Trek.

Since 75% of Prime Trek was made under Berman's watch, it does mean Berman Trek.

Regardless of how much of it was under Berman's watch, Prime Trek includes TOS and it's movies.

Agreed. But I wouldn't even go that far. The movies, to me, were rebooting Trek for a modern audience using TOS as the source material, the same as Abrams' films.

But Bill's right in that most of the people on this board who use the term "Prime Trek" actually mean Berman Trek.

 

[F. King Daniel]

That's exactly why "prime universe" isn't a good way to differentiate. It's just a bit of backstory. TOS was different in style to TNG. DS9, VOY and ENT are arguably much closer to TNG's storytelling style than TOS'. TMP and TWoK-TUC have very different styles too, but closer to TOS' than TNG's.

 

[BillJ]

I usually refer to the Berman-era material as Modern Trek. But I think many people do use a Prime Universe as shorthand for the Berman stuff.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I usually refer to the Berman-era material as Modern Trek. But I think many people do use a Prime Universe as shorthand for the Berman stuff.

I assume that's what the thread starter meant with his poll, though I can't be sure. The implication, of course, is that Berman Trek (as "prime" Trek) is somehow more "real" than JJ Abrams Trek.