Do Chief Engineers attend Command School ?

[TransporterBeam]

We have all seen the Cheif Engineer of a Starship take command of the ship on occasion when the Captain and XO are not aboard. Do they have to take courses at Command School back at at a starbase or at the Academy in anticipation of that occurence.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Probably.

 

[Hermiod]

Depends on their rank. Despite his claims to the contrary in "Rules of Engagement", Chief O'Brien does not have the rank to take command anyway.

 

[Carpe Occasio]

Command Division rundown

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Command_division

Starfleet command division personnel

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_command_division_personnel

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Depends on their rank. Despite his claims to the contrary in "Rules of Engagement", Chief O'Brien does not have the rank to take command anyway.

O'Brien isn't a *chief engineer*, as such. He's a Chief of Operations.

 

[Hermiod]

^He's the Defiant's chief engineer by default.

 

[zephramc]

His rank is also Chief Petty Officer (probably Master Chief Petty Office). I think he received the "Chief" nickname in TNG as transporter chief, which later carried over to DS9. I think in TNG he actually wore Lt. pips on his collar (though I'm probably wrong). DS9 established that he was a noncom though.

 

[The Wormhole]

His rank is also Chief Petty Officer (probably Master Chief Petty Office). I think he received the "Chief" nickname in TNG as transporter chief, which later carried over to DS9. I think in TNG he actually wore Lt. pips on his collar (though I'm probably wrong). DS9 established that he was a noncom though.

TNG established him as a non-com. In Family, Worf's father greets O'Brien saying something like "it's good to meet another Chief Petty Officer." You are right that he did wear Lt pips. Until S6 when he began wearing the single hollow pip he wore in in DS9's first three seasons.

 

[Timo]

It wouldn't be difficult to pretend that the "Lieutenant" pips were "in fact" hollow, and served much the same function as the two stars in his eventual DS9 collar chevron plate: to indicate that he is Senior Chief.

As for Chief Engineers having Command training, one would assume they mainly get it long after their cadet days, when it begins to seem that they could become Chief Engineers rather than ordinary grease monkeys. LaForge seems an exception who either didn't begin his career by studying engineering, or diverged early on from that to some sort of Command track that involved helm duty and other TNG redshirt work.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS Excelsior]

Another thing is if there's actually a Command School.

A first year helm Ensign maybe no more in tune to take command than a first year engineering Ensign.

Command experience probably develops over time whether they be command or engineering officers. Science officers, well that's another story.

 

[erastus25]

I'm inclined to say yes. We see that Scotty takes command quite often, and also that LaForge easily switched from red to yellow. Perhaps they have to pass the command test that Deanna passed in Thine Own Self as a minimum, but are also allowed to pursue more training if they so wish?

 

[Carpe Occasio]

Starfleet Command School

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_Command_School

 

[Timo]

Also, Lieutenant Saavik was probably enrolled in Command School at the beginning of ST2.

Janeway's experiences with Command School jibe well with the idea that "command-colored" folks often serve at starship helm at the beginning of their careers. That's probably the best possible hands-on work for preparing to command a ship.

What one wonders is why anybody would wear the "command colors" right after graduation. Not in connection with the simplistic ENT, TOS or TNG scheme, but in connection with the complex scheme of the TOS movies where colors were associated with departments/divisions and white seemed to denote high command explicitly. How could Ensign Picard wear white in Tapestry, right after completing his basic training?

Or did Picard take elective Command classes while still within the Academy, while Saavik took those some time after graduation? I guess Starfleet could be flexible in that respect. If we see Kirk take on his no-win scenario in the next movie while still a cadet, then we get support for this interpretation...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[erastus25]

Janeway's experiences with Command School jibe well with the idea that "command-colored" folks often serve at starship helm at the beginning of their careers. That's probably the best possible hands-on work for preparing to command a ship.

But didn't Janeway start as a science officer?

 

[Timo]

She served as one at one point of her career. We have no idea how she started, really.

It might be that people who from the very beginning know they are destined to command jobs take the necessary courses as part of their undergraduate studies. Kirk may be such a person; Picard, with his white collar in "Tapestry", would be a confirmed case (if the theory held true). In contrast, people less sure about their destinies would attend Command School only after graduation. Saavik and Janeway might have graduated with Science training, then decided to enroll in Command School possibly in order to pursue a career as starship Chief Science Officer (as Saavik begins to wear Command white along with the Sciences grey in ST3). Had the two ladies taken Command training before graduation, they might have missed on Science education due to the limited total number of classes they could attend.

Similarly, Scotty and LaForge might have started out as engineers, then attended Command School. But the backstory of LaForge rather suggests he found his calling in engineering only long after graduation, perhaps when Picard commended him for his efforts to repair that shuttle (the eulogy in "Next Phase").

Timo Saloniemi

 

[erastus25]

She served as one at one point of her career. We have no idea how she started, really.

Wow, I don't recall that at all. Do we know what she did exactly? Or how long she was in engineering? Or, more simply, if you can remember the episode, I'll just look up the scene myself.

 

[SeanMcC]

And in one possible future, La Forge ended up commanding a ship of his own in 'Timeless'.

 

[Timo]

Wow, I don't recall that at all. Do we know what she did exactly? Or how long she was in engineering? Or, more simply, if you can remember the episode, I'll just look up the scene myself.

Uh, what I was saying was that yes, she served as a Science Officer at one point , on the Al-Batani ("Live Fast and Prosper"), not as Engineer. As "Shattered" establishes Janeway's Al-Batani posting as her first after the Academy, she seems to have been a junior Science Officer there. But we don't know for sure how long that posting lasted, and we don't know of Janeway started out as a SO or perhaps switched to that role from something else two years into the mission.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[erastus25]

Wow, I don't recall that at all. Do we know what she did exactly? Or how long she was in engineering? Or, more simply, if you can remember the episode, I'll just look up the scene myself.

Uh, what I was saying was that yes, she served as a Science Officer at one point , on the Al-Batani ("Live Fast and Prosper"), not as Engineer. As "Shattered" establishes Janeway's Al-Batani posting as her first after the Academy, she seems to have been a junior Science Officer there. But we don't know for sure how long that posting lasted, and we don't know of Janeway started out as a SO or perhaps switched to that role from something else two years into the mission.

Timo Saloniemi

Ohhh, that makes a lot more sense. I misunderstood your first sentence and thought you were talking about her being an engineer. Thanks for the Janeway history lesson, though.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm inclined to say yes. We see that Scotty takes command quite often, and also that LaForge easily switched from red to yellow. Perhaps they have to pass the command test that Deanna passed in Thine Own Self as a minimum, but are also allowed to pursue more training if they so wish?

AFAIK, the test in 'Thine...' was only for science/medical officers - anyone who wears blue, so to speak. And thus would not normally ever be considered for a command. Any such officer must take the test simply to advance beyond the rank of Lieutenant Commander, let alone actually *get* command experience.

Thus, McCoy must have taken the test, since he was a full Commander as of TMP. Beverly also did, since she said so (and she is also a Commander). And Janeway obviously did, since when we met her she was a Captain. I'm guessing that Bashir didn't, since he wasn't high enough in rank (AFAIK, he ended DS9 as a Lieutenant). Jadzia? Unknown. We saw her command the Defiant, but as a LCDR. Maybe she took the test but elected not to advance to full CDR?