Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot

[Lynx]

^ I apologize for using insult and derision, which you have such disdain for.

Now here, pay attention: Gorf said s/he wasn't interested in any Pocket Voyager books, because s/he only got halfway through Homecoming.

In other words, even if Before Dishonor never happened, s/he would not have had the intention of buying Full Circle. That decision was made before Janeway's death. And regardless of the quality of Kirsten's book (or, apparently, the quality of Golden's three other books, which s/he never bothered forming a first-hand opinion of). What's disingenous here is all the whining and pouting and foot-stomping by "fans" demanding a role in the editorial process when they're never going to buy the books, no matter what.

You're absolutely wroong when you state that the fans who dislike the fact that Janeway is killed off have no interest in the books and won't buy them anyway.

I do post on a forum where there is a group of hard-core Janeway fans and all of them were fans of the relaunch books up to now when Janeway has been killed off.

As for me, I was never that fond of the "after-Endgame" scenario but I did buy some of the books just to keep an eye on what was going on in what I did see as the continuing adventures of our favorites and also in some sort of support for the Relaunch itself since my opinion at that time was that it's better with this relaunch than no relaunch at all.

So stating that the critical fans have no interest in the books and won't buy them is wrong.

 

[Gorf]

Not to mention that there are a lot of people who support you too when it comes to the "Janeway issue".

Yep, yep.

 

[Gorf]

Fans haven't got any say in the editorial process whether they buy no books or every book ever produced. I don't think it is disingenous, however, for a person disinvolved with the line generally to state why they are unattracted to the line, and yes, the reasons for such can change even as the overall status as a patron does not. In this case, a reader tried a book, found the quality lacking, and did not patronize the line for that reason. At this point in time, a change in the level of quality seems to be in the offing, but it coincides with a editorial direction that said reader finds offputting in the extreme, and thus will continue not patronizing the line. Different reasons, same situation.

Couldn't have said it any better. No, wait...I couldn't have said it that well so thank you for voicing my opinion in this completely objective yet straight-to-the-point way.

 

[Therin of Andor]

You're absolutely wroong when you state that the fans who dislike the fact that Janeway is killed off have no interest in the books and won't buy them anyway.

Some have been here saying they are Janeway fans but have never supported the licensed fiction, preferring fanfic. Some have said they used to read VOY books, but quit when the TV series ended. Some have inferred they won't buy any VOY books unless they know the ending in advance. Some have said they'll wait till they hear that Janeway's back till they buy any VOY books, and won't they be crying when they find key books they want are sold out? And some of us love Janeway - and are excited by the new dimensions to VOY stories opened up by the death of a main character.

The likes and dislikes of fans are so many and varied that they all can't be catered for at the same time. So Pocket settled, several years ago, to write strong stories, ones that might actually polarize the audience, rather than to keep churning out two bland MMPB ST books every month that tried to offend no one, which is exactly what the late 80s and early 90s brought us.

I do post on a forum where there is a group of hard-core Janeway fans and all of them were fans of the relaunch books up to now when Janeway has been killed off.

And you know what? They haven't sampled any new VOY Relaunch novels yet, but some have decided that if they can't know the ending of the story arc in advance, then they're refusing to buy. Their shortsighted choice. They are prejudging Kirsten Beyer's novels by demanding to know the ending. Unless she tells them that Book 3 will be a rosy resurrection, they're taking their bat and ball and going home. (Nah, actually, some are saying they'll hang around to jeer over the fence.)

Pocket knows that strong ST stories will bring in plenty of people to take their place.

So stating that the critical fans have no interest in the books and won't buy them is wrong.

Do you mean fans critical of Janeway's death, or fans critical to sales of Pocket ST novels?

Because, either way, those fans are not critical to the book sales. "Voyager" is bigger than Janeway, and ST fandom is bigger than any subset of embittered fans.

 

[Steve Roby]

I'm trying to make this simple. but since you don't seem to understand the carrot vs stick metaphor, I don't know if this post will clarify anything at all. Hint: I'm saying you should offer Pocket a carrot in the form of buying a Voyager novel you like instead of offering the stick of a boycott.

You're only here trying to boost sales. After reading the nonsense that was 'Homecoming' I wouldn't part with another penny on pocket books.

Hey, look! Someone read some of the older posts!

Bod, notice the part in bold? I hoped I was coming up with a way to prove that the Janeway Army was numerically significant, by having them put their money where their mouth is in a positive way. I didn't specify a book. I left that to the Janeway Army, who decided they'd rather focus on the negative. Silly naive me.

You've helped me prove that I'm stronger than I thought and that it really doesnt matter how much opposition I meet, how much I'm ridiculed, how many times I'm told I'm wrong, or what the hell you think of me...I just don't care.

What a wonderful feeling. Once I was afraid that people would judge me for what I liked and believed in. I'd say this have cured me. If I can face all of you, I can face anything.

You have found confidence. Good for you. How 'bout we work on perspective next? Because if this is really the most challenging, life-changing fight of your life, I envy you.

 

[Gorf]

...Because if this is really the most challenging, life-changing fight of your life, I envy you.

Feel free to join.

 

[Sci]

This Thread:

Seriously, it's all been said before. Everyone knows where everyone stands. No one's changing. Why are we still going at it?

 

[LightningStorm]

Why are we still going at it?

It's the internet, it's what we do.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Man, the review thread for Full Circle is going to be such a clusterfuck

The Official Star Trek Grading Thread in the Trek XI forum after May 8th will likely be 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times worse.

 

[Lynx]

You're absolutely wroong when you state that the fans who dislike the fact that Janeway is killed off have no interest in the books and won't buy them anyway.

Some have been here saying they are Janeway fans but have never supported the licensed fiction, preferring fanfic. Some have said they used to read VOY books, but quit when the TV series ended. Some have inferred they won't buy any VOY books unless they know the ending in advance. Some have said they'll wait till they hear that Janeway's back till they buy any VOY books, and won't they be crying when they find key books they want are sold out? And some of us love Janeway - and are excited by the new dimensions to VOY stories opened up by the death of a main character.

The likes and dislikes of fans are so many and varied that they all can't be catered for at the same time. So Pocket settled, several years ago, to write strong stories, ones that might actually polarize the audience, rather than to keep churning out two bland MMPB ST books every month that tried to offend no one, which is exactly what the late 80s and early 90s brought us.

I do post on a forum where there is a group of hard-core Janeway fans and all of them were fans of the relaunch books up to now when Janeway has been killed off.

And you know what? They haven't sampled any new VOY Relaunch novels yet, but some have decided that if they can't know the ending of the story arc in advance, then they're refusing to buy. Their shortsighted choice. They are prejudging Kirsten Beyer's novels by demanding to know the ending. Unless she tells them that Book 3 will be a rosy resurrection, they're taking their bat and ball and going home. (Nah, actually, some are saying they'll hang around to jeer over the fence.)

Pocket knows that strong ST stories will bring in plenty of people to take their place.

So stating that the critical fans have no interest in the books and won't buy them is wrong.

Do you mean fans critical of Janeway's death, or fans critical to sales of Pocket ST novels?

Because, either way, those fans are not critical to the book sales. "Voyager" is bigger than Janeway, and ST fandom is bigger than any subset of embittered fans.

There are some fans, not only Janeway fans but fans in common who, for different reasons, prefer fanfiction. The absence of main characters in the books or the split-up of a beloved crew might be the reason why many fans prefer the fan-fiction.

But there are also many Janeway fans and Voyager fans in common who have bought the books and some of them won't do that anymore because of the treatment of the main character of Voyager.

And I truly sympathise with those fans of Janeway who will refuse to buy the books when Janeway isn't in them anymore and who find it hard to accept the policy of those in charge of the relaunch in this case. I mean, no one is that stupid that he/she will waste money on something which they know won't please them. Believe me, I've been in the same situation when it comes to another Voyager character and I know how it feels. I would never waste money on a season 4-7 DVD episode or book.

And I don't see any dimenisions opened up by killing off Voyager's main character. What should that be? Lots of pages wasted on tear-filled gloom and doom? The re-surrection of C/7?

And I don't think that the stories have been that strong in later years. With all respect to the writers of the relaunch, none of the recent stories are comparable to the masterpieces which were written during seasons 1-3 of Voyager.

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/1964/bookreviews.html

I can agree that ST fandom might be bigger than "any subset of embittered fans" but I see no reason to neglect those fans. Wouldn't it be better to have them buying the books?

As for the statement that ""Voyager" is bigger than Janeway", I must state that Voyager without most of its main characters are no longer Voyager but a bogus Voyager comparable to certain legendary rock bands from the past with only one original member left who are touring around the world, doing watered-down versions of their previous hits.

But when we are doing those comparisions, I may have a suggestion for further storytelling if the current trend with killing off main characters willcontinue which has some connection to the "bogus Fleetwood Mac" who caused a scandal many years ago which I wrote about in another post (due to some commotion in the band and the risk of having to cancel an US tour, the manager put together a bogus Fleetwood Mac to do the tour which wasn't appreciated by those who attended the concerts. Faced with angry fans and journalists, the manager lost his temper and exclaimed: "I have the rights to the band name! I am Fleetwod Mac!)

So let's imagine that Chakotay and Kim are killed off as well (who needs main characters from the TV seies anyway) and the ship have a new captain. Faced with an angry B'Elanna Torres who is furious over the fact that she and Tom haven't been accepted as crew members and also enraged by the fact that the new chief engineer's errors was the main reason for the death of Chakotay and Kim, the new captain loses his temper, bangs his fist on the table in front of Torres and screams. "This is my ship, I'm in charge here and I decide who's a crew member or not! I am Voyager!

And no, I won't charge the writer who uses that scenario.

 

[captcalhoun]

This Thread:

Seriously, it's all been said before. Everyone knows where everyone stands. No one's changing. Why are we still going at it?

your pic's gone...

249 posts left...

 

[AuntKate]

This Thread:

Seriously, it's all been said before. Everyone knows where everyone stands. No one's changing. Why are we still going at it?

your pic's gone...

249 posts left...

Well, I did a quick count and found no fewer than 12 threads dealing with the Destiny Trilogy, either as the trilogy itself or as one of the three books, and I haven't seen any complaints about that. If the threads are unique and of interest to the posters, who am I to complain? I'm not forced to read them if I'm not interested--and neither is anyone else except, perhaps, the mods.

 

[Sci]

Hm. Not sure what terms of use I violated, but whatever. It was a gif of an equestrian beating a dead horse.

This Thread:

Seriously, it's all been said before. Everyone knows where everyone stands. No one's changing. Why are we still going at it?

your pic's gone...

249 posts left...

Well, I did a quick count and found no fewer than 12 threads dealing with the Destiny Trilogy, either as the trilogy itself or as one of the three books, and I haven't seen any complaints about that.

The difference being that everyone in those threads was saying something unique and, usually, non-combative, whereas this thread as being nothing more than the same people fighting with each other and saying the exact same things to each other over and over and over and over and over again.

 

[Rosalind]

Well, I did a quick count and found no fewer than 12 threads dealing with the Destiny Trilogy, either as the trilogy itself or as one of the three books, and I haven't seen any complaints about that.

actually, I like to know what are these 12 threads, because off the top of my head, I can think of 5: one for each book (and those have been inactive for a while now), one on the trilogy, and Dayton3's thread.

 

[JAG]

249 posts left...

The 1000 post restriction is not in place anymore, since the move to vbulletin.

and its 245 now

 

[Josh Kelton]

So, try a carrot instead of just a stick.

I'd probably go with the carrot. The stick doesn't exactly contribute towards my 5 a day

 

[Rosalind]

249 posts left...

The 1000 post restriction is not in place anymore, since the move to vbulletin.

and its 245 now

it goes under "moderator discretion"

 

[Marie1]

I recommend somewhere in the 720s...

 

[captcalhoun]

we're on 750-odd now...

 

[DimesDan]

we're on 750-odd now...

760 now