But they can't be considered as dead since they still are out there, existing as sentient beings with the possibility to return for good.
As for Kes:http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/1964/Kesstories.html
Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot
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But they can't be considered as dead since they still are out there, existing as sentient beings with the possibility to return for good.
As for Kes:http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/1964/Kesstories.html
Hehehe. You know, the more people rant, the more likely a mustache-twirling editor might be determined to make her decision really, really permanent. If Pocket had one of those.
I remember when people on a Peter David listserv were trying to second-guess what PAD had up his sleeve to reveal about Mark McHenry and his weird powers. Was he secretly a Q, etc. Someone outright declared "I think Mark is an El-Aurian!", and PAD teased, "Thanks a lot, now I have to change my plans...", and Mark ended up as the descendent of Carolyn Palamas and Apollo ("Who Mourns for Adonais", TOS). We'll never know if PAD was being serious or not.
If Janeway's off drinking coffee with Suzie Q, how is she not still a sentient consciousness waiting for someone to give her a new body?
Kirk, McCoy and the Enterprise don't even appear in the TAS episode, "The Slaver Weapon" - Niven said he's only do an episode if he could avoid writing for Kirk, IIRC, so it features only a shuttlecraft, Spock, Uhura and Sulu, plus cross-pollinates the kzinti from the author's "Known Space" stories - and yet it's still ST.
Your choice, and your loss. It was a brilliant move, and it brought home the message of war in a way that also made all future M*A*S*H episodes as dangerous for the cast/characters as the war was for the real soldiers and medics.
*looks around wildly*
Where's Unicron?!?! I SWEAR i just heard him say 'i will give you a new body and new troops to command'!
a planet-eating planet sized Transformer loose in the Trekverse... and you thought the BORG were bad...
The Borg only ate a planetoid... Or whatever Pluto was that day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EpwGaJbZq0
damn, now i'm making pop culture references people are too old to get... normally they're too young...
damn, now i'm making pop culture references people are too old to get... normally they're too young...
So is Janeway. At least, as far as I can tell. What makes you think otherwise? The fact that the current editors have said they won't revive her?
How is that any different from the TNG or VOY people saying Kes and Wesley wouldn't be back as regulars? Which they said.
You're inventing some kind of weird-ass double standard here, and it's confusing me.
Thrawn, I have to admit I am way out of my league arguing with you on this point. You are obviously well read when it comes to Trek. To be honest, I never had that much of an interest in Trek until Voyager. Endgame left me hanging and I bought the relaunch novels right away and read all four of them as fast as I could. I kept checking Christie Golden's website to see if she ever had plans to continue the books. I heard about Peter David's book and was very excited until I heard about Janeway's death, so I decided to skip it. Now there's Full Circle. I just have to wait and see what others say before I make up my mind whether to buy it.
I am obviously a new fan when it comes to the books. But I feel the rug has been pulled out from under me. Thank you for your well thought out point of view and at least understanding where I am comming from.
I tried to watch DS9 on several occasions and just couldn't get into it. However, after having been on the boards a while now, I do feel that I am missing something. I will watch it as soon as I get the opportunity.
Wow. What a speech!DS9 is good, tho. Not the best Trek there is, but good nevertheless.
Maybe start with some of the later seasons to get hooked if you've tried several times at the start to get into it, then go back to the earlier ones- they're good- and there is interesting and important stuff to later in the series, and to the PF... but an addiction helps. 
I hope you give it a try. The feel of the show is very different from Voyager, but they both originally set out to do similar things: to show us Starfleet characters working with non-Starfleet people, including former enemies, and forcing them to deal with the consequences of their actions in a somewhat more serialized mode than TOS or TNG.
If you like the family feel of Voyager, well, the father/son relationship between Ben and Jake Sisko is very real and affecting, and Ben eventually gets into a great relationship with a civilian ship captain, Kasidy Yates, which has a rocky start. You've also got the close friendship between Ben Sisko and Dax, which is given a twist by the old man Sisko knew now being a young woman. There's a really large supporting cast, all of whom get great opportunities to shine, and who make up a great web of relationships, rivalries, and enmities. DS9 was the only Trek series that could produce a great episode that had nothing more going on than the right sets of characters talking to one another, not that they ever really did that -- it's just that the characters and relationships were drawn so well, they were fun to watch. Garak and Bashir, Bashir and O'Brien, Quark and Odo....
Meanwhile, there's a wide variety of stories. Political intrigue, war, religion, baseball...
FWIW, as much as I love TOS (which started the whole thing), I do think DS9 was probably the best Star Trek TV series. And if you decide to start getting into it, you should try to find a copy of the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion, the best episode guide/making of book Pocket's published. The show's writers and producers are remarkably candid about what they tried to do, where they think they went wrong, etc.
"Weird-ass double standard"
Huh?
Oh dear.
But let's look at the facts. Wesley was never killed off and pronounced dead. He left with that Traveller and maybe he got some super-powers, who knows but he was never killed off.
Kes wasn't declared dead either.
And what I know, no one has officially stated that neither Wesley nor Kes would never ever return. What I know, there was some sequence with Wesley which should have been a part of that "Nemesis" movie but it was deleted for some reason.
But Janeway has been killed off (even if there is a back door available due to her encounter with Q).
And the most important of all:
Those in charge of Pocket Books have stated that Janeway will remain killed off!
Thrawn, I have to admit I am way out of my league arguing with you on this point. You are obviously well read when it comes to Trek. To be honest, I never had that much of an interest in Trek until Voyager. Endgame left me hanging and I bought the relaunch novels right away and read all four of them as fast as I could. I kept checking Christie Golden's website to see if she ever had plans to continue the books. I heard about Peter David's book and was very excited until I heard about Janeway's death, so I decided to skip it. Now there's Full Circle. I just have to wait and see what others say before I make up my mind whether to buy it.
I am obviously a new fan when it comes to the books. But I feel the rug has been pulled out from under me. Thank you for your well thought out point of view and at least understanding where I am comming from.
I apologize; I don't mean to seem overbearing or intimidating. I do understand where you're coming from, and like I said, I totally understand if Janeway's death is a dealbreaker. I just think this thread is full of enough hysteria already, that we shouldn't exaggerate any further. Fair enough?
And as for DS9, well actually, I never watched DS9 at all, I just started with Avatar (the first book in the relaunch). I mean, I've since gone back and watched most of the really important ones, but I had no problem just knowing the characters and reading Avatar's timeline, jumping right in.
"Weird-ass double standard"
Huh?
Oh dear.
But let's look at the facts. Wesley was never killed off and pronounced dead. He left with that Traveller and maybe he got some super-powers, who knows but he was never killed off.
Kes wasn't declared dead either.
And what I know, no one has officially stated that neither Wesley nor Kes would never ever return. What I know, there was some sequence with Wesley which should have been a part of that "Nemesis" movie but it was deleted for some reason.
But Janeway has been killed off (even if there is a back door available due to her encounter with Q).
And the most important of all:
Those in charge of Pocket Books have stated that Janeway will remain killed off!
Uhhh...nope, still a double standard.
1) Welsey leaves the show and becomes a higher being. The powers that be have no plans to bring him back. SEVERAL YEARS LATER, a DIFFERENT writer decides to bring him back in a DIFFERENT form of media (movie, not TV).
2) Kes leaves the show and becomes a higher being. The powers that be have no plans to bring her back. SEVERAL YEARS LATER, she makes ONE guest appearance on the show.
3) Janeway leaves the books and becomes a higher being. The powers that be have no plans to bring her back. It's been less than 18 months since that happened. I'd be shocked if, 5 or 6 years down the road, she didn't at least put in an appearance.
But just like Wesley and Kes stayed gone (if not dead), so will Janeway, at least for the immediate future.
I would have to agree on both these points and as for the companion, I would have to say, apart from Russel T Davies book last year on the creative process of Doctor Who, it is one of the best books on how things are done when it comes to a TV series.
I'd just like to remind you, that one they haven't and two, they won't announce such a straight jacketing decision. What several informed yet non official people have said is that: For now and untill the right story comes along, Kathyrn Janeway was (insert which either wordage you wish here) during the events of Before Dishonour and that event will remain in place until and only if the right story comes along causing that event to effectively be reversed.
I would have to agree on both these points and as for the companion, I would have to say, apart from Russel T Davies book last year on the creative process of Doctor Who, it is one of the best books on how things are done when it comes to a TV series.
Wow, just wow. After 3 long threads on Janeway being dead someone has finally included some information I can use. I had no idea such a book existed. Thanks man...
"Weird-ass double standard"
Huh?
Oh dear.
But let's look at the facts. Wesley was never killed off and pronounced dead. He left with that Traveller and maybe he got some super-powers, who knows but he was never killed off.
Kes wasn't declared dead either.
And what I know, no one has officially stated that neither Wesley nor Kes would never ever return. What I know, there was some sequence with Wesley which should have been a part of that "Nemesis" movie but it was deleted for some reason.
But Janeway has been killed off (even if there is a back door available due to her encounter with Q).
And the most important of all:
Those in charge of Pocket Books have stated that Janeway will remain killed off!
Uhhh...nope, still a double standard.
1) Welsey leaves the show and becomes a higher being. The powers that be have no plans to bring him back. SEVERAL YEARS LATER, a DIFFERENT writer decides to bring him back in a DIFFERENT form of media (movie, not TV).
2) Kes leaves the show and becomes a higher being. The powers that be have no plans to bring her back. SEVERAL YEARS LATER, she makes ONE guest appearance on the show.
3) Janeway leaves the books and becomes a higher being. The powers that be have no plans to bring her back. It's been less than 18 months since that happened. I'd be shocked if, 5 or 6 years down the road, she didn't at least put in an appearance.
But just like Wesley and Kes stayed gone (if not dead), so will Janeway, at least for the immediate future.
1. Different media doesn't matter. It's still Star Trek and still TNG.
2. As for Kes, I wish they would never have brought "her" (or more correctly, brought in that pathetic creature who was supposed to be Kes) to that horrible episode. Still, Kes was never killed off and it was never stated that she would never ever come back (and if it was, those in charge did break that promise when they decided to destroy and humiliate the character in "Fury").
As for Janeway, on the contrary to Wesley and Kes, she was killed off and they have stated that she will not be brought back.
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Yeah, again...we don't get to just make shit up.
All that has been said on the subject by myself or anyone else from Pocket is that the choice to kill Kathryn Janeway will not be undone in the next two Voyager novels to be released, Full Circle, and October's Unworthy.
I have said repeatedly that beyond that, anything is possible.
Kirsten Beyer
Well, that changes the situation. At least a bit since there seem to be some hope.
See'ya in 2010 then!
I have to say that I am very happy and excited that you actually took the time to post here and on ST.com. I know that you were only working with what they gave you. Sorry, I can't be more enthusiastic. I guess you can say I'm in the "wait and see" group. Thanks for all your effort though.
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