Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot

[Lashmore]

You know, I have no problems with any of my favoruite characters dying in any fashion, really. And I am meaning broad terms, ANY character I like of ANY genre books or movies/tv series.

Why? Cause death is a constant, it is your next best friend next to life.

A favourite character doesn't need a heroic death worthy of them, because I find that so cliché and rpedictable. I am just as satisfied with them dying by slipping int eh shwoer, beign backstabbed by the most cowardly of weak nemesis' or what not.

its realistic. The most unstoppable hero's will die soemhow, soemday, and in msot cases realistically not a heroic save the universe or anything death.

A meaningless death is actually quite realistic...and in writings I always give extra points towards realism over heroic.

I don't see the fuss.

I don;t care if my favoruite fictional hero of all time who has helped influence me as a person dies choking on a piece of steak, infact I'd probably smile and be quite satisfied. "Didn't see that one coming."

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

If you care for characters in a book so little that you not only don`t care but might even smile and be satisfied about it when they die, that is your opinion. But death is definitely not "your next best friend in life".

To me, life is precious. This also applies to characters in a book. I hate stories in which death is not treated with the respect it deserves.

 

[RonG]

While "ordinary", unheroic death is indeed realistic in everday life, I like my fiction to portray death as important, meaningful and yes - heroic.

IMO, when the hero dies in a meaningful fashion, it can greatly enhance a story (a-la the film Gladiator, one of my all time favorites)... Death in general, when handled right can also enhance a story.

Star Trek is no different to me. I liked Sisko's "death" in WYLB, and Data's in Nemesis (as opposed to Tasha Yar's death, for instance). Death in the novels also works the same way IMO (a-la Destiny)...

 

[captcalhoun]

i wish all these people who keep bleating about how they hate the franchise for not doing what they want would just shut up and go and not come on here and bitch about the fact. if you're leave, then make like a tree already!

 

[Lashmore]

If you care for characters in a book so little that you not only don`t care but might even smile and be satisfied about it when they die, that is your opinion. But death is definitely not "your next best friend in life".

Did I ever even hint at the fact that I don't care for the characters?

No

And if you were a clever literary reader as I'm sure you would claim to be, you would see the metaphor behind "Death is your best friend next to life" and not take it so literally...or perhaps you aren't as clever as I would assume you to be.

Note, I give you a positive assumption which could possibly be wrong.

Like you make an assumption of me which is wrong.

Making some nice headway aren't we?

because I am not hurt by characters which mean something to me dying, in a heroic, meaningful or non-heroic and plain way does not mean I care not for the characters.

And if you think about it, in some stories about epic struggles between good and evil, and if again I assume you are a clever reader, a meaningless mundane death can hold more meaning to the story.

"We fight these struggles for the good of all...yet, we were blind to the small things in life because of our sense of grandeur in these moments..."

Please....don't assume without first considering the possibility your assumptions are wrong. Like I am willing to accept you are not a clever reader.

 

[Brit]

i wish all these people who keep bleating about how they hate the franchise for not doing what they want would just shut up and go and not come on here and bitch about the fact. if you're leave, then make like a tree already!

But we are here (and yes there is a we that is not an assumption). We are here to stay.

Brit

 

[Therin of Andor]

I was always a Star Trek fan, but not so much a die hard one.

Pocket Books know, from 30 years of selling ST tie-ins, that only about 5% of ST fans ever buy the novels, so they won't miss you, and won't be trying to pander to get readers. Just continuing to tell the best stories possible.

The novels all have different lengths, styles and authors, so it's probably unwise to dismiss them all as if tarred with the one brush.

Marco Palmieri used to say he'd rather edit and publish ST novels that polarized the available audience - have people either loving or hating the same book - than to churn out mediocre novels that everyone agrees are bland enough to merely satisfy everyone.

 

[joyofvgr]

I was always a Star Trek fan, but not so much a die hard one.

Pocket Books know, from 30 years of selling ST tie-ins, that only about 5% of ST fans ever buy the novels, so they won't miss you, and won't be trying to pander to get readers. Just continuing to tell the best stories possible.

The novels all have different lengths, styles and authors, so it's probably unwise to dismiss them all as if tarred with the one brush.

Marco Palmieri used to say he'd rather edit and publish ST novels that polarized the available audience - have people either loving or hating the same book - than to churn out mediocre novels that everyone agrees are bland enough to merely satisfy everyone.

Well then I guess the exception to that rule was the Voyager Relaunch novels. Now they are going to continue the relaunch, yay, Oh wait, but your Captain is dead. Well, pocketbooks won't miss me, I was only just becoming one of those 5% anyway, but I won't miss them either. There are many more books out there to spend my money on.

 

[joyofvgr]

i wish all these people who keep bleating about how they hate the franchise for not doing what they want would just shut up and go and not come on here and bitch about the fact. if you're leave, then make like a tree already!

As it is we stayed quiet for too long and people don't even realize how many of us there actually are. I'm sure are there even more, but they were smart enough to just change the channel and walk away altogether.

 

[RonG]

i wish all these people who keep bleating about how they hate the franchise for not doing what they want would just shut up and go and not come on here and bitch about the fact. if you're leave, then make like a tree already!

As it is we stayed quiet for too long and people don't even realize how many of us there actually are. I'm sure are there even more, but they were smart enough to just change the channel and walk away altogether.

Don't take this the wrong way joyofvgr, but most of us AFAIK don't really care how many Militant Janeway Fans (tm) there are... Surely, there are other topics to discuss

 

[Ktrek]

Now that Janeway will be gone, I see no reason to waste anymore time or money on a franchise that has does nothing but disappoint me. But I really don't think they wanted someone like me for a fan in the first place anyway. TOS and TNG were also very good series. I really enjoyed them, but never to the extent I loved Voyager. I never really could get into DS9, but I may give that a chance. I won't be buying any DVDs anytime soon. I'll just wait and see if the Sci Fi channel picks it up. There's no reason for me to invest any of my money in a franchise that doesn't even want me as a customer. I can take a hint.

Yea, yea, yea...we've heard it all before. It's all about you isn't it? You guys always try and make it so personal like they shot your best friend because they just don't like you. Well, there are plenty of other fans out there and you not buying the DVDs does not affect the books in the least. I'm willing to bet that Ful Circle and Unworthy will be two of the better selling Star Trek books this year.

Kevin

 

[joyofvgr]

No. It's not about ME at all, it's about business. If they want my business they should be the ones dangling the carrot, not me. Obviously if they don't have a product I want, I won't buy from them. That's all I'm saying. And there seem to be a lot of fans that feel the same way I do. The best we can do is make our feelings known. If they chose to act on it fine, if not, we'll seek our entertainment elsewhere.

Obviously they think they will please more people and make more money with the road they've chosen. So be it.

 

[es!]

This seems to be a heated discussion but I don't really see a point in it.

First, Janeway fans do exist. I, among others, write fanfiction and organize contests for 1,300 of them.

Second, nobody can say what these 1,300 people can do now about Janeway's death. A part of them will certainly stop buying the books, but it's hard to estimate if Pocket Books would notice.

The only thing I'm sure of is that killing off a captain of a ship will not make later books about the said ship more successful.

I think - and it's a pure speculation - that Janeway will be revived in an amazing manner. Of course Pocket Books can't reveal it now because that mourning fic (yeah, I mean Full Circle) won't have any deep effect if it would be known that the caracter would be eventually revived.

 

[RonG]

well, if this is about business, and letting TPTB know how you feel, I'd like to express my opinion


I would be very disappointed if the TrekLit editors and/or authors decide to resurrect a fictional character, be it Janeway (who I didn't really care about) or Data (who I liked a lot!) - Unless future movies or TV episodes establish it, let the dead rest in peace (or Q Heaven ).

 

[joyofvgr]

I think - and it's a pure speculation - that Janeway will be revived in an amazing manner. Of course Pocket Books can't reveal it now because that mourning fic (yeah, I mean Full Circle) won't have any deep effect if it would be known that the caracter would be eventually revived.

To be honest, up until recently that's what I've always believed. I just hope you're right. It would also make sense that her death would have a profound impact her crew and perhaps initiate something even better once she was revived. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

This seems to be a heated discussion but I don't really see a point in it.

First, Janeway fans do exist. I, among others, write fanfiction and organize contests for 1,300 of them.

Second, nobody can say what these 1,300 people can do now about Janeway's death. A part of them will certainly stop buying the books, but it's hard to estimate if Pocket Books would notice.

The only thing I'm sure of is that killing off a captain of a ship will not make later books about the said ship more successful.

I think - and it's a pure speculation - that Janeway will be revived in an amazing manner. Of course Pocket Books can't reveal it now because that mourning fic (yeah, I mean Full Circle) won't have any deep effect if it would be known that the caracter would be eventually revived.

Um Janeway hasn't been Voyager's captain since they got back to the Alpha Quandrent, since she was an admiral. Voyager has be Chakotay's ship since the end of Farther Shore.

 

[RonG]

how can Janeway's death have any effect if it had barely been touched upon?

That's one of the reasons I'm waiting for Full Circle - as we've never had a "real" captain's death in Star Trek, I want to see some reactions, some ramifications...

so, to sum up my opinion on all things Janeway:
- Didn't like the character too much
- Didn't mind her being killed off, as it was heroic \ fitting
- Looking forward to seeing her crew's reactions to her death
- Would prefer that she stays dead

 

[Hartzilla2007]

as we've never had a "real" captain's death in Star Trek

Um Kirk and Spock anyone.

 

[es!]

well, if this is about business, and letting TPTB know how you feel, I'd like to express my opinion


I would be very disappointed if the TrekLit editors and/or authors decide to resurrect a fictional character, be it Janeway (who I didn't really care about) or Data (who I liked a lot!) - Unless future movies or TV episodes establish it, let the dead rest in peace (or Q Heaven ).

I don't like resurrections either, but I dislike killing main characters off even more. I just fail to see how it could make anybody happier let alone richer.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

well, if this is about business, and letting TPTB know how you feel, I'd like to express my opinion


I would be very disappointed if the TrekLit editors and/or authors decide to resurrect a fictional character, be it Janeway (who I didn't really care about) or Data (who I liked a lot!) - Unless future movies or TV episodes establish it, let the dead rest in peace (or Q Heaven ).

I don't like resurrections either, but I dislike killing main characters off even more. I just fail to see how it could make anybody happier let alone richer.

Well its more realistic.