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Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot

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Hartzilla, there is a somewhat notorious fanfic out there about Janeway, Chakotay, and a piece of corn. That's what started it.

There are a lot of, shall we say, broad-minded stories about Janeway and sex out there (the lactation story is another that springs to mind, as well as the one with raspberry sauce and kitchen implements) but the corn story has reached its own level of fame. :lol:
 
Octavia said:
Hartzilla, there is a somewhat notorious fanfic out there about Janeway, Chakotay, and a piece of corn. That's what started it.

There are a lot of, shall we say, broad-minded stories about Janeway and sex out there (the lactation story is another that springs to mind, as well as the one with raspberry sauce and kitchen implements) but the corn story has reached its own level of fame. :lol:
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Lactation? Raspberry sauce and kitchen implements? Gee, I don't know about that. If some links happened to find their way to me via pm then I could make an accurate assessment here. ;)

The corn story is just silly fun. :techman:
 
wow, this thread took a strange turn.
confused2.gif
 
Steve Roby said:
I don't have a problem with getting occasional novels set during the TV series. But to ignore the series finale and hit a reset button just because you want more of the same old, same old -- how is that a relaunch?

We've seen how the Voyager characters deal with being lost in space. Now it's time to see how they deal with being back. Christie Golden's books all but ignored that, focusing instead on Libby the Spy, the holorevolution, the Borg virus, the hyperemotional new counselor, and Chakotay the magic Indian, and coincidentally sidelining Seven and Tuvok. Kirsten Beyer is going to build on Golden's books, but I'd be surprised if she doesn't fill in a lot of the gaps Golden ignored. That's a lot more interesting to me than a reset button.
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All the things I disliked about those four books all tied up in one neat, tidy sentence.... thank you. ;) I really look forward to reading "Full Circle".
 
Ktrek said:
I have been a fan of Star Trek since it first aired in 1966. I have watched every series as they came on television. I have watched VOY in entirety several times. I own the VOY DVDs and I own every VOY novel. My wife is also a huge fan of VOY but neither of us are bothered by Janeway's death. And it's not because we don't like the character of Janeway. I think at times that Kate Mulgrew was the wrong person to play Janeway but you can't change 7 years of television history. My biggest problem with Mulgrew is that she quite often didn't come off naturally, but that is another topic for the VOY board.

The character of Janeway was often poorly written too and she contradicted herself. One minute she upholds the prime directive and the next she writes her own rules as she goes along, and she did. Misogyny had nothing to do with the poorer ratings of VOY nor the consistently bad reviews of episodes by fans. It was frustrating to see a show that had so much potential not live up to it. Even so the show had it's bright moments and fine characters too. I have to say that the numbered books in the VOY series are not some of the best Trek books ever written. I had high hopes that the post finale books (please quit calling them relaunch!) would change things for the better and to some degree, at least for me, they did.

It's to be expected that once the ship was back home things would never be the same. To try and keep the band together just for old time sake would not have worked. I fully understand the editors trying to find viable ways to move the story forward. After all the show was called Star Trek:Voyager and NOT Star Trek: Janeway or Janeway/Chakotay or anything else. It is named after a ship and a ship that naturally would go through changes in personnel as crew members moved on to other assignments, retired, were killed in the line of duty or whatever. Yes for 7 years Voyager's stories mainly revolved around the 7 main crew members. Would it be reasonable to expect them to all stay together once Voyager returned home? Of course not!

I said all that to say that the Voyager story continues because it is a story about a ship with a crew and that crew is now in flux and realistically could remain in flux. Chakotay could be court martialed or even promoted to a different ship and another character becomes captain. Should Chakotay fans scream loud that there favorite character is no longer captain?

Janeway officially was promoted to Admiral on screen. The writers had to deal with that aspect of canon. Personally I feel the best thing for the Janeway character would have been for that not to have happened and left her as Captain when the ship got back. She could have been reassigned with new crew members and gone forward but that didn't happen unfortunately.

Thus the editors and writers have to take what is given to them and when you look at their track record in recent years they have done pretty well. Even though I personally would not have killed off Janeway I am not in a position to judge that it was a wrong decision. Perhaps Peter David was not the best choice for that assignment but the fact remains that like it or not in Before Dishonor Janeway was killed. To push the reset button just because a few fans who write fanfic and rarely, if ever, buy and read the books make a little noise on an insignificant message board would be wrong. Janeway will probably return someday, but it won't be until there is a story so good and worth telling that they must.

In the interim, while I await the return of Janeway, I am not going to insult the authors and editors for the direction they have chosen. It was not mine to make. Nor will I accuse Margaret Clark of being a misogynist, or of hating Janeway or any other demeaning thing. I do not know Margaret and thus cannot determine her motives outside of what she has said. If the editors and writers believe that they can move the story forward and tell some really good stories without Janeway then I am fine with that.

I suppose some of the Janewayites would be OK with Janeway being "alive" but not having any significant role in the Voyager books? I have a feeling that even if they kept her alive, and had her just making token appearances in the books, you would be just as upset as by her death. Not every fan will like a direction that is taken in the books, but many fans will. If you don't want to buy the books fine; because it seems the most of you were already NOT buying them anyway. Thus your boycott says nothing. Your posts here say nothing other than to give members like me a chuckle several times a day! I even wrote a PM to Rosalind, one of the mods here, when the Janeway died thread closed and asked her to reopen it because it was just so much fun for three weeks coming to read that one thread. Fans who go to extremes always make me think of religious fanatacism. I think fanaticism is a danger in fandom, politics, religion, or anywhere. Life should be balanced and I think getting so wound up about the death of a "fictional" character is going too far.

Anyway, I know I have rambled on here but not all Janeway fans are upset by her death as some posting here are, or at least seem to be. I being one who is looking forward to seeing how Kirsten Beyer will do with what has been handed her. She has a huge task and a lot of expectations to live up to.

My posting here should not have to be qualified with "these are MY opinions" but it seems that some people need to hear you say it anyway, even if this is a message board!

Kevin
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A good written and interesting post. However, I have to disagree with some of your statements here.

As for Janeway being "a poorly written character", that might be some truth in it when it comes to the later seasons when she became a bit unpredictable. But in that case, it's the same for all the remaining main characters who also were badly handled in the later seasons. When it comes to seasons 1-3 I find Janeway a very good character, definitely one of the best Star trek captains. I always liked her compassion for each and every crewmember and that she was ready to sacrifice herself if it was necessary to save one of them.

As for "keeping the band together", OK it may have been a bit unrealistic but I think that it would have been the best solution. What I liked most with Voyager was the characters and the interaction between them. It would have been great to see that continue in the books, and yes I do think there could have been a way to bring back Kes and Neelix as well.

As for the statement about "a ship and its crew", well you do have a point there. But I have a feeling that it could turn out like it did with the rock band Fleetwood Mac a couple of years ago (before Stevie Nicks joined and the the band got big worldwide break). The band was in dissarray and the manager panicked since a planned lenghty US tour was in jeopardy. So he gathered together a bunch of unknown British musicians, labeled them as "Fleetwood Mac" and went to the US with some wishful thinking that his old buddy Mick Fleetwood would join the band in the middle of the tour after sorting out some divorce problems back home. Anyway, the tour with the bogus Fleetwood Mac became a disaster, the audience did react very badly in some places when they were playing and on top of that, Mick Fleetwood and the other members of the real band did also react very strongly against the whole thing and sued the manager.

Faced with all that, the manager lost his temper one evening, went up on stage and announced "I have the rights to the band name! I am Fleetwood Mac!" :lol:

Juridically, he may have been right. The point was that no one was buying it and the bogus band cancelled the rest of the tour and went home. The real Fleetwood Mac did resurrect later on but that's another story.

In fact, the current Voyager relaunch more and more begins to look like that bogus Fleetwood Mac.

Honestly, I think that writing and publishing stories from that angle (about the ship and a constantly changing crew) will not be successful in the long run.

As for making Janeway an admiral, that was a mistake from those in charge of the show. I've stated my dislike for Janeway turned into a desk clerk before and I've also stated that it could be changed, just like what happened to admiral Kirk in the TOS movies where he once again was in command of the Enterprise.

Wouldn't it have been a bigger challenge for the writers to correct some of the errors made in the TV series than just killing off Janeway? I do think so.

I can see that you're laughing at what you call "fanatics" which I do find a bit rude. Why not try to understand how these people feel about this subject instead?

As for reading the books, I think you are wrong when you assume that most of the hardcore Janeway fans aren't reading the books so a boycott wouldn't mean a thing. I've been posting occasionally on a forum where there are many ardent Janeway fans among the regular posters and most of them are (or more correctly were) fans of the books as well. As for me, first of all I'm not a "Janeway fanatic", I like the character who I find one of the best of the Star Trek characters but she's not my all time favorite. I haven't been that happy with the Voyager relaunch but I've bought most of the books because of interest for what's happening in the Star Trek universe and what the old favorites are doing after "Endgame" and I have also bought books out of support for the relaunch which I've seen as the continuing stories of the Voyager crew and despite some misgivings with the ongoing stories, I've thought that "it's better than no Voyager relaunch at all".

However, that will change from now on.

I've been criticized for "insulting the authors and the editors" and for accusing them of deliberately insulting the fans by killing off Janeway. I do admit that my criticizm has been harsh sometimes, maybe too harsh. It has never been my intention to insult anyone or to end up in endless fighting with other Star Trek fans. But there are some things I simply can't accept.

Tryto see it this way: If I was in charge of, let's say the relaunch and was about to make a decision which I knew would make many fans angry and upset, then I would have to live with that, take the criticizm and the angry outbursts and, if necessary, take a debate with those angry and upset fans as well instead of just coming up with official statements about "creative decisions" and so on.

If I didn't want such a scene, then I might reconsider the decision which could upset many fans or maybe change that decision later on.

As for expectations, I no longer have any expectations when it comes to Star Trek books. There was a long time ago when I realized that if I want to read a new, exciting Star Trek story with Kes as one of the main characters, then I have to write it myself. I guess it's the same for all the other Voyager main characters as well.
 
Lynx said:
Tryto see it this way: If I was in charge of, let's say the relaunch and was about to make a decision which I knew would make many fans angry and upset, then I would have to live with that, take the criticizm and the angry outbursts and, if necessary, take a debate with those angry and upset fans as well instead of just coming up with official statements about "creative decisions" and so on.

If I didn't want such a scene, then I might reconsider the decision which could upset many fans or maybe change that decision later on.
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I'm done with this thread.

This is fiction by committee, with a big sticker on the front cover that says, "This story arc has a guaranteed happy ending".
 
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