Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot

[Thrawn]

We are not even asking for parity here, because this isn’t about the number of stalls in public restrooms. We are talking about the disregard of a whole fandom. We are talking about just how insulting it is to be told to buy one more book because it’s the last one you will get.

Brit

That is NOT what Kirsten said. She said, if you are only interested in Janeway stories, there is one more big Janeway story to be told. And that if that isn't enough for you, she totally understands. The person she was replying to didn't know that Janeway appeared in the book at all.

It was very different from how you portray it.

And again, the decision was made to tell a better story in the opinions of the people in charge. YOU are the one that is CHOOSING to be insulted by this decision, rather than simply disagreeing and taking your business elsewhere.

 

[Octavia]

The irony here is that Peter David wrote the only Star Trek novel that is romace-focused in Imzadi.

Yep. And didn't that sell rather well? A NYT bestseller, IIRC.

 

[Octavia]

And I just replied about this in Kim's new thread on the topic. I am OK with implied sex but I don't want explicit sex in the books. I share books with young people I know who like Trek and I think the books should be as safe to read as the shows are to watch.

Kevin

Maybe this is where e-books could come in. You need a credit/debit card to buy 'em, and you've usually got to be of a certain age to get that.

 

[Brit]

You not only want a Janeway romance, you want a resurrected Janeway romance, set post-"Beyond Dishonor"?

What about the fans that want her with Chakotay? With Mark? With her "Fair Haven" hologram? With Seven? With a new beau? Someone is going to be disappointed.

Yes exactly, I want a living Janeway set post "Before Dishonor", and yes I want her with Chakotay, now that isn't saying that there isn't a strong fandom that wants her with Seven because there is. There is a pretty good segment that wants her with Tom Paris too.

I would love to see Janeway novels with at least an acknowledged relationship; I would prefer that the relationship be with Chakotay. I am not saying that they have to include anything explicit because they do not.

A lot has been said about how "good" some people think "Before Dishonor" is, and I also have no problem with that. There are a lot of wonderful authors in the world that write about subjects that I don't care for. Orson Scott Card's "Lost Boys" is a good example, I have enjoyed a lot of his work, but I cannot read "Lost Boys" which deals with a serial killer of young boys. I can't read that, I'm not saying the writing is faulty, I'm saying I can't read that.

I care about the character of Janeway and I don't want her dead.

Brit

 

[Therin of Andor]

I would prefer that the relationship be with Chakotay. I am not saying that they have to include anything explicit because they do not.

But here's the problem. They might bring her back and pair her with Harry Kim, but you wanted her brought back and paired with Chakotay, or with Mark. "Lovers are not interchangeable," you'll say. "If only they hadn't resurrected Janeway to be with Kim."

If your prescribed laundry list of "what I'll accept as a post-NEM Janeway novel" deviates from what Pocket supplies you'll be unhappy.

What's wrong with trusting professional authors to tell us the best stories that they know how to write, and accepting that our fantasy plots may never get immortalized by the licensed tie-ins? Fanfic exists for a reason: because the licensed tie-ins can't delve into every sub genre and still make a profit.

 

[elaithin]

I care about the character of Janeway and I don't want her dead.

Brit

And I'm sorry, but all that is at this point is denial.

 

[BillJ]

I care about the character of Janeway and I don't want her dead.

Brit

And I'm sorry, but all that is at this point is denial.

And pretty creepy too boot.

 

[Thrawn]

I would prefer that the relationship be with Chakotay. I am not saying that they have to include anything explicit because they do not.

But here's the problem. They might bring her back and pair her with Harry Kim, but you wanted her brought back and paired with Chakotay, or with Mark. "Lovers are not interchangeable," you'll say. "If only they hadn't resurrected Janeway to be with Kim."

If your prescribed laundry list of "what I'll accept as a post-NEM Janeway novel" deviates from what Pocket supplies you'll be unhappy.

What's wrong with trusting professional authors to tell us the best stories that they know how to write, and accepting that our fantasy plots may never get immortalized by the licensed tie-ins? Fanfic exists for a reason: because the licensed tie-ins can't delve into every sub genre and still make a profit.

Right, exactly. Christopher made a point in another thread that, ultimately, when it comes down to it, the reason that any author or TV writer will give for "WHY DIDN'T YOU DO....whatever" must ultimately boil down to "because we decided to do something else". TrekLit, with very rare exceptions, is internally consistent these days and so is only telling ONE story. Fanfic exists in large part because of all the other possible stories that could have or could still be told, but weren't or won't be. Not because they wouldn't have been good stories, but because, well, they decided to do something else.

 

[Mriana]

Denial? Come on! It's a fiction. Fiction can be anyway the audience wants it and the writer agrees to write it. In this case, said writer screwed up. So... Anyone who wants to write and can get published can write another story with her alive. It really doesn't matter since it is fiction. We aren't talking real life. Let's be real about this.

 

[elaithin]

That's just it. You think they screwed up. Others (myself included) disagree. So which one of us is right?

Neither.

Anyone could write that story where she comes back, true. The questions then is whether or not it would be any good. If it was a good story and the best move forward for the series, then it'll get published. Simple as that.

 

[Mriana]

Who said the author would have to resurrect Janeway from the dead. The author could just write something as though she never died. After all, there are different timelines happening. So it doesn't have to be the same series said writer wrote.

 

[donners22]

There are ways to include sex in a book so that the adults know what's going on without exposing younger readers to a lot of "insert part A into slot B" specifics. It's not a binary thing, where you have to be either pornographic or completely devoid of sex.

And I just replied about this in Kim's new thread on the topic. I am OK with implied sex but I don't want explicit sex in the books. I share books with young people I know who like Trek and I think the books should be as safe to read as the shows are to watch.

Kevin

How do you feel about the more explicit violence? That seems to be increasingly common, though admittedly my favourite Trek author, Peter David, was one of the pioneers.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Come on! It's a fiction. Fiction can be anyway the audience wants it and the writer agrees to write it.

No, it's licensed tie-in fiction, and therefore it must comply with the wishes of the copyright owner, CBS, to conform to Star Trek as CBS wants it. Tie-in writers are writers for hire and if they can't write to set parameters then the assignment goes to someone else, or the proposal or manuscript is rejected.

 

[Ktrek]

How do you feel about the more explicit violence? That seems to be increasingly common, though admittedly my favourite Trek author, Peter David, was one of the pioneers.

Perhaps you could be more specific with examples? Because I have not read anything that I would label "explicit". There is some violence in Trek fiction as there always has in Sci-fi. I started reading Sci-fi when I was around 12 years old and sci-fi as a genre has always had some violence. I would be opposed to what would be the equivalent of slasher films if that is what you mean but I am not opposed to what movie makes list as "sci-fi violence" and thus label it PG-13.

Kevin

 

[donners22]

Well, the opening scene to Cold Wars, the Mirror Universe books, some of the A Time to... books. Hell, I read Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms which have some fairly gory scenes, but while on-screen violence on Trek is generally pretty clean (a standard brawl, phaser shots, etc), the books tend to be a bit bloodier. I would think that would be at least as inappropriate for children as a sex scene.

 

[Thrawn]

PAD has been violent since the beginning though; anyone remember the 20-page planetary destruction scene at the beginning of Vendetta?

If it's worth complaining about now, it's been worth complaining about for some time now. Which is not to say it isn't worth complaining about, I'm just saying it's nothing new.

 

[Mriana]

I read Vendetta and successfully forgotten it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I read Vendetta and successfully forgotten it.

You retcon-hate it because PAD murdered Janeway in the sequel?

 

[Mriana]

How can I hate something I don't even remember? That is not a possibility. I was just saying that I read it and forget it. It doesn't mean anything more than that.

 

[Therin of Andor]

How can I hate something I don't even remember? That is not a possibility. I was just saying that I read it and forget it. It doesn't mean anything more than that.

"Successfully forgotten" seems to infer that you tried hard to do so.