Disgruntled Janeway fans: try a carrot
- Thread starter Steve Roby
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*runs away*
Tho I have a better idea!
An anthology: TREKS OF TITILLATION!
Tho I have a better idea!
An anthology: TREKS OF TITILLATION!
Well, we all read Trek books for the Articles....
*groans* If I didn't love Destiny so much I think I would have to smack the Mack!
Kevin
Nor should it be because that's not what Star Trek is about. To think of a Star Trek novel with a Janeway romance as the focus kind of gives me the heebee-jeebees! Just don't want to go there!
Kevin
And just how does your desire to not go there take presidence over mine to see what I want to read.
The romance issue was pointed out to all of you as a viable focus for Janeway stories. It shows you all that the notion that there are no more Janeway stories to tell is false. Bottom line is that we want a living Janeway.
The title of this thread is “Disgruntled Janeway fans: Try a Carrot” but that is a two way street, because there has to be the assumption that the publishers are holding out a carrot to us in turn. It was mentioned that Peter David was responsible for “Imzadi” and I’ll go one step farther and tell you that there was support for his “New Frontier” books in the Janeway fandom because of the romantic elements in those books. He has now lost that support.
We were all thrilled that Kristen Beyer had been chosen to author the “Voyager” relaunch, now we find out that book will be dealing with the events that led up to Janeway’s death and from what we can tell from the tidbits tossed out here, a book that ends in grief and all subsequent Voyager books will not have the Voyager canon central character of Janeway at all. We don’t want a “last” book, we certainly don’t want a “grief” book, and the thought that Voyager continues without Janeway is in no way acceptable.
We are not even asking for parity here, because this isn’t about the number of stalls in public restrooms. We are talking about the disregard of a whole fandom. We are talking about just how insulting it is to be told to buy one more book because it’s the last one you will get.
Brit
Nor should it be because that's not what Star Trek is about. To think of a Star Trek novel with a Janeway romance as the focus kind of gives me the heebee-jeebees! Just don't want to go there!
Kevin
And just how does your desire to not go there take presidence over mine to see what I want to read.
The romance issue was pointed out to all of you as a viable focus for Janeway stories. It shows you all that the notion that there are no more Janeway stories to tell is false. Bottom line is that we want a living Janeway.
The title of this thread is “Disgruntled Janeway fans: Try a Carrot” but that is a two way street, because there has to be the assumption that the publishers are holding out a carrot to us in turn. It was mentioned that Peter David was responsible for “Imzadi” and I’ll go one step farther and tell you that there was support for his “New Frontier” books in the Janeway fandom because of the romantic elements in those books. He has now lost that support.
We were all thrilled that Kristen Beyer had been chosen to author the “Voyager” relaunch, now we find out that book will be dealing with the events that led up to Janeway’s death and from what we can tell from the tidbits tossed out here, a book that ends in grief and all subsequent Voyager books will not have the Voyager canon central character of Janeway at all. We don’t want a “last” book, we certainly don’t want a “grief” book, and the thought that Voyager continues without Janeway is in no way acceptable.
We are not even asking for parity here, because this isn’t about the number of stalls in public restrooms. We are talking about the disregard of a whole fandom. We are talking about just how insulting it is to be told to buy one more book because it’s the last one you will get.
Brit
So you don't believe that Voyager as a series shouldn't grow and change? To me this kind of mindset is why televised Trek could no longer compete with the rest of the TV industry. There was no drama. The status quo was to be maintained from week-to-week.
To me Janeway's death re-ignited my interest in Voyager.
Brit, you are not going to find the Janeway romance novels you seem to want from Pocket Books because they have to be licensed, and therefore must reflect the basic concepts of the show. Sure there can be a romance storyline, but within the confines of a science fiction plot. No VOY novel can be too much of a departure from the show's format.
A novel featuring Janeway falling in love could be set anywhere during the VOY series timeline. But it won't be the sole purpose of such a novel. Kirk fell in love in numerous novels. Picard recently fell in love in "The Buried Age", and then committed to Bev in the Relaunch. But they were novels that still reflected the premise of the shows.
You not only want a Janeway romance, you want a resurrected Janeway romance, set post-"Beyond Dishonor"?
What about the fans that want her with Chakotay? With Mark? With her "Fair Haven" hologram? With Seven? With a new beau? Someone is going to be disappointed.
First of all, let me say that I do feel for those who are passionate Janeway fans and are upset by her death in Before Dishonor. I would be upset if the novels did the same to Picard, and I was upset when Nemesis killed off Data. However, there are a few points I would like to bring up concerning the sentiments I've seen in this thread and the others in recent days.
1. To paraphrase an author on this board, people shouldn't mistake the griping of a few posters on an internet message board for any kind of trend. If more people are alienated from buying Trek books because of the Janeway decision than are interested in seeing the results of that shakeup, then it will be reflected in the sales numbers. People can say what they want here, but they may not act according to those words, and there is no way of knowing how many are truly in agreement with those ideas.
2. There is a shared continuity among the books currently, but there is nothing stopping the editorial staff from approving a novel where Janeway is alive throughout the 2380s. Kirk came back from the dead in just such a way.
3. The books cannot violate what has been handed down by the TV shows and movies. They can try to work around it or make sense of it, as was done in The Good That Men Do and String Theory, but they cannot flatly contradict the canon sources. Therefore, any story with Janeway that is not set during the series will necessarily have her playing a different role than she had as captain onf Voyager.
4. We've had four post-series novels already with a living Janeway. Did they treat her well? I'm seriously asking here. I have not read those novels due to bad word of mouth.
5. If Janeway was the sole reason that someone was buying any Trek books, then the economic impact of any boycott will be very minimal. She is only in one series out of about 10 ongoing series. If some of the "disgruntled Janeway fans" have been supporting multiple Trek series and are now withdrawing support, then I have to ask why. Janeway was never going to be a part of Vanguard, Titan, CoE, ENT, or any other series as a regular. Those other stories should be judged on their own merits. Dropping support for non-Voyager novels does not send a clear message, or at most it shows that interest in Star Trek as a whole has diminished slightly.
6. If all else fails, try writing to Abrams or the other people involved in making Trek movies. If the next movie shows that Janeway is alive in a framing sequence definitively set after 2381 or something, then the books will have to account for that somehow.
1. To paraphrase an author on this board, people shouldn't mistake the griping of a few posters on an internet message board for any kind of trend. If more people are alienated from buying Trek books because of the Janeway decision than are interested in seeing the results of that shakeup, then it will be reflected in the sales numbers. People can say what they want here, but they may not act according to those words, and there is no way of knowing how many are truly in agreement with those ideas.
2. There is a shared continuity among the books currently, but there is nothing stopping the editorial staff from approving a novel where Janeway is alive throughout the 2380s. Kirk came back from the dead in just such a way.
3. The books cannot violate what has been handed down by the TV shows and movies. They can try to work around it or make sense of it, as was done in The Good That Men Do and String Theory, but they cannot flatly contradict the canon sources. Therefore, any story with Janeway that is not set during the series will necessarily have her playing a different role than she had as captain onf Voyager.
4. We've had four post-series novels already with a living Janeway. Did they treat her well? I'm seriously asking here. I have not read those novels due to bad word of mouth.
5. If Janeway was the sole reason that someone was buying any Trek books, then the economic impact of any boycott will be very minimal. She is only in one series out of about 10 ongoing series. If some of the "disgruntled Janeway fans" have been supporting multiple Trek series and are now withdrawing support, then I have to ask why. Janeway was never going to be a part of Vanguard, Titan, CoE, ENT, or any other series as a regular. Those other stories should be judged on their own merits. Dropping support for non-Voyager novels does not send a clear message, or at most it shows that interest in Star Trek as a whole has diminished slightly.
6. If all else fails, try writing to Abrams or the other people involved in making Trek movies. If the next movie shows that Janeway is alive in a framing sequence definitively set after 2381 or something, then the books will have to account for that somehow.
I liked Janeway. I am not a rabid fan by any means. I do feel that killing her off was a bad idea. Now I have choices. And those choices are to stop reading Trek novels or read Trek novels. I choose to read them regardless of Janeway's death.
Remember in Star Wars when they kill Obi-Wan. He did come back to help after he was killed. And given the way Janeway was left, maybe she too can come back in a similar way if she's not brought back to live. We don't know what's in store for her given the way she was last seen. Maybe this will be a new evolution for Janeway. I don't know what's in store if anything is. So I have decided to just wait and see what happens.
Remember in Star Wars when they kill Obi-Wan. He did come back to help after he was killed. And given the way Janeway was left, maybe she too can come back in a similar way if she's not brought back to live. We don't know what's in store for her given the way she was last seen. Maybe this will be a new evolution for Janeway. I don't know what's in store if anything is. So I have decided to just wait and see what happens.
Nor should it be because that's not what Star Trek is about. To think of a Star Trek novel with a Janeway romance as the focus kind of gives me the heebee-jeebees! Just don't want to go there!
Kevin
I hate to break it to you but middle-aged women have sex all the time. In fact, there's probably some having it RIGHT NOW. Bwahahahaha!
You're right - that's pretty ironic!
^ heh, tell that to J. Howard Marshall
If you all want sex in your Star Trek than go read fanfic. There's plenty of it out there or write your own stories. I don't want to read about Janeway going to bed with anyone (male or female). I prefer my Star Trek also to be clean enough that I can give the books to the young fans I know without worrying about sex scenes or softcore erotica showing up in Trek.
Kevin
Kevin
There are ways to include sex in a book so that the adults know what's going on without exposing younger readers to a lot of "insert part A into slot B" specifics. It's not a binary thing, where you have to be either pornographic or completely devoid of sex.
And I just replied about this in Kim's new thread on the topic. I am OK with implied sex but I don't want explicit sex in the books. I share books with young people I know who like Trek and I think the books should be as safe to read as the shows are to watch.
Kevin
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