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Discovery's "cost per first stream"

You know I love looking at Discovery metrics, from streaming signups to the ratings in Canada! So here's a new angle on it that I discovered today:

A bunch of internal Amazon Prime documents leaked a few weeks ago, which led Reuters to take a very interesting look at how Amazon measures the success of its shows. The whole thing is worth reading, but here's the key passage:


Basically, "cost per first stream" is the amount of money Amazon has to spend on a show in order to acquire a new Amazon Prime subscriber.

The article goes on to say that The Grand Tour Season 1 had a "cost per first stream" of only $49, which is well below the cost the streamer will pay for Amazon Prime, so that's money in the bank for Amazon, and probably explains why Prime keeps promoting it to me even though I've never watched a car show in my life and never will. This made Grand Tour Amazon's most successful show. By contrast, Good Girls Revolt, which was cancelled after only a few weeks despite critical acclaim, had a "cost per first stream" of $1,560, so its viewers would have to subscribe to Amazon Prime for more than 15 years before Amazon would start to show a profit on Good Girls Revolt.

Using the rest of the data in the article, we can reconstruct a pretty interesting chart showing the "cost per first stream" of several shows in Amazon's arsenal. Better yet, using other publicly available data, we can also come up with some estimates the "cost per first stream" of Star Trek Discovery. (Of course, our conclusions will vary enormously based on our assumptions; see below.) We can put that all into one chart, and... voila!

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Finally, with this metric, Star Trek Discovery's financial logic begins to make some kind of sense.

The "optimistic" estimate for Discovery assumes a cost-per-episode of $5.2 million (which is the lowest figure I could find, from back when it was a 13-episode series) and that all 500,000 users who signed up for CBS All Access during Discovery's run were there for Discovery and streamed Discovery first. As you can see, if those generous assumptions are true, then Discovery is a considerable success, not quite paying for itself, but performing dramatically better than many streaming shows that have gone on to run for multiple seasons.

The "pessimistic" estimate for Discovery assumes a cost-per-episode of $8 million, as reported by the Hollywood Reporter. That would make it the most expensive show on this list, which is saying something, because the leaked figures from Amazon include the shows' marketing budgets, while the only figures we have for Discovery are for the (smaller) production budget. So if Discovery's production budget alone is nearly double the production plus marketing budget of The Man in the High Castle, that makes Discovery an expensive venture indeed. Nevertheless, there are indications that this is indeed closer to the true figure. The other assumption in this estimate is that only one-quarter of the 500,000 people who signed up for All Access during Discovery's five-month run streamed Discovery first (so DISCO is credited with 125,000 first streams).

As you can see in the chart, if these negative assumptions are close to correct, then Discovery is clearly a troubled program, which will probably need steep budget cuts in future seasons in order to continue to justify itself. On the other hand, it's still doing much better than Good Girls Revolt, and Sneaky Pete (with a similarly high cost-per-first-stream) got renewed for a second season, so, at the very least, we can say that CBS's decision to renew Star Trek Discovery was justifiable, not an insane move driven by a fear of losing face (which is a suggestion I have made previously).

The "average" estimate for Discovery simply takes the midpoint of the optimistic and pessimistic figures, assuming a budget of $6.6 million per episode and that half of CBS AA's subscribers during its run (aka 250,000 new users) were "first streaming" Discovery. On this average estimate, Discovery looks like an average streaming show. Which is, y'know, not terrible for fans and probably would ensure a run of at least 2-3 seasons even without steep cuts.

Based on everything I've read, I'm inclined to think that Discovery is more toward the pessimistic end of this, but it is worth bearing in mind that, as CBS struggles to build its streaming platform, it may be less sensitive to money-losing shows than more established competitors, simply because CBS AA needs all the content it can get right now to be an attractive proposition to consumers. Another factor to consider (and I have no idea how large a factor this is) is that Discovery comes with licensing deals and toy sales, whereas shows like The Man in the High Castle pretty much have to make their own profits.

Fascinating! Thank you for posting, I never could imagine just HOW streaming services would determine the relative "success" or "failure" of a show. It can't be just audience figures. This is the first time I read of such an approach.

Of course, beyond that there will always be considerations to have "flagship" shows - massive big-budget ventures, or things that are loved by the critics - that can survive even being in the reds, simply because the service needs to have some "big" productions to convince people the service will continue to deliver quality stuff - even when a lot of the cheaper stuff has better margins.

If it makes any difference in your calculations, Discovery's Season 2 episodes have a budget of roughly $6 mil per. Don't ask me for a source on that info, because I can't tell you. Since alot of props, sets, costumes, etc have already been made, they can save some money.

Since the production is running much smoother for Season 2, they can also save costs with better planning.

Sounds reasonable. My personal guess was that probably half the budget of season 1 was wasted in development hell - much like ST:Beyond, where the 220 mio. budget never materialized on screen, but was instead eaten up by behind-the-scenes shenanigans, like stopping the production inbetween, scrap half of the work that as been already done, start new from scratch, and brute force the vfx to be ready on release...

The same way, DIS looks remarkebly cheap. Not like it cost 5 mio. per episode, even less like 8 mio. I guess if they manage to put "all" of the new 6 mio. on screen, the show will look actually a lot better and more finished in S2 than in S1.

Also, a budget reduction to a more reasonable 6 mio. (which is also closer to the original estimated costs per episode for S1) is probably indicative of how CBS sees the success of the show: Proceed as was previously intended. It's not a big raise indicating gang-buster success, but not a critical failure short of cancellation decrease either. It's a simple "move forward as planned".
 
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You like The Orville (which is the 25th Century even though it's not Star Trek) and you already don't like Discovery (which is the 23rd). So the century doesn't matter whether you want to admit it here or not. You yourself have said before the "century" doesn't matter. And, you were right in that case. It doesn't.

Besides, if they do go post-VOY, with this creative team, you already know it won't be the same as the Berman Era. And you still won't like it anyway. At this point, you don't have a dog in this fight.

From the beginning of ENT to Star Trek Beyond, you had your way for 15 years. That's a pretty good turn you had.
 
You like The Orville (which is the 25th Century even though it's not Star Trek) and you already don't like Discovery (which is the 23rd). So the century doesn't matter whether you want to admit it here or not.

What a silly stab at an argument.

I don't give a fuck about the number that writers attach to their continuities. It's entirely arbitrary.

The Orville isn't in the "25th century" because there is no 25th century for it to be set in and no fixed points of reference delimiting how to portray a fictional "25th century." So you're not really making any point at all, here.

If I wanted to describe The Orville in terms that related it to Trek, I'd just say that the stories play mostly like Trek TOS and look mostly like an amped-up (effects-wise) variation of Trek TNG. I wouldn't fuss around with the nonsense of reconciling fake chronologies.

There's no promise whatever to what Trek had going on in their 25th century by the end of that nearly six hundred-hour run. Why should I want to see them go back to that well for inspiration?
 
What a silly stab at an argument.

I don't give a fuck about the number that writers attach to their continuities. It's entirely arbitrary.

The Orville isn't in the "25th century" because there is no 25th century for it to be set in and no fixed points of reference delimiting how to portray a fictional "25th century." So you're not really making any point at all, here.

If I wanted to describe The Orville in terms that related it to Trek, I'd just say that the stories play mostly like Trek TOS and look mostly like an amped-up (effects-wise) variation of Trek TNG. I wouldn't fuss around with the nonsense of reconciling fake chronologies.

There's no promise whatever to what Trek had going on in their 25th century by the end of that nearly six hundred-hour run. Why should I want to see them go back to that well for inspiration?

And how exactly do you know that they'd go back to that well for inspiration? Can you read the writer's minds? Do you know what approach they're going to take? If you can see into the future and read people's minds, please share your special secret.

Like I said, you already don't like what they're doing in the 23rd Century. So what difference does it make -- for you -- if they move it to another century? What will they do? Just make even more Star Trek you don't like? A difference that makes no difference is no difference.

If you truly didn't "give a fuck" about continuity -- which it seems like you do and are in denial -- you wouldn't even give a shit if it were in the 23rd Century, the 24th Century, or the 90th Century. But as soon as someone says 24th Century, you're like "FUCK NO!", so you do care.
 
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Quantity is more important than quality at this point if they want their customers to keep renewing their subscriptions every month, for the original programming, which is hardly the draw for this service.

That's the problem with AA in general -- it doesn't make much sense as a value proposition. You get a handful of new shows, a weak back catalog, and some sports events. It doesn't even give you the right to stream CBS broadcast shows earlier than you otherwise could have, which is the rule for the Hulu-affiliated nets.
 
That's the problem with AA in general -- it doesn't make much sense as a value proposition. You get a handful of new shows, a weak back catalog, and some sports events. It doesn't even give you the right to stream CBS broadcast shows earlier than you otherwise could have, which is the rule for the Hulu-affiliated nets.
Unless its part of a strategic move to make a deal with another streaming service like Hulu or Netflix.
 
That's the problem with AA in general -- it doesn't make much sense as a value proposition. You get a handful of new shows, a weak back catalog, and some sports events. It doesn't even give you the right to stream CBS broadcast shows earlier than you otherwise could have, which is the rule for the Hulu-affiliated nets.

People said the same when netflix just started and when they only had a single original show. You have to start somewhere..

To the point of the OP to really have a basis on discovery's success or failure you would also need the cost to first stream for the overseas netflix markets. The reason netflix paid so much for it is to gain new subscribers in overseas markets where they don't have the same saturation of subscribers as they do in the US (same thing CBS was doing with AA). So we'd need those numbers as well to make a true value of where discovery is.
 
People said the same when netflix just started and when they only had a single original show. You have to start somewhere..
But Netflix had an established, loyal subscriber base based on DVD rentals. Streaming was just an add-on service at first, remember? It wasn't launched cold. (And even so, from the start it had a better library of content than CBSAA.)
 
But Netflix had an established, loyal subscriber base based on DVD rentals. Streaming was just an add-on service at first, remember? It wasn't launched cold. (And even so, from the start it had a better library of content than CBSAA.)

It was and I remember when it first launched people complaining that the selection wasn’t very good esoeciallly compared to the dvd business. It still took some time for them to get it established.
 
All Access has exactly zero chance of achieving Netflix's success.
Disagree. I think its unlikely CBSAA will achieve that success, but I do think it's possible if handled properly. CBS is an established network with a decades old TV library and access to numerous licensing deals and partnerships.
I think that if they are trying to replicate Netlfix's success, they need to pour significant resources into it - for example, getting the Paramount/Viacom/CBS movie library online - and heavily advertise the classics. New network shows as well as original streaming-only shows - do ten shows as popular as STD and you"ll gain traction. All this supposes that CBSAA isn't angling for a buyout from Amazon, Hulu or Netflix.
 
@Wowbagger - thank you for the analysis. Very thoughtful. I would suspect that one significant "skew" is the unknown amount of money Netflix paid(is paying) for international (outside of US and Canada) distribution rights.
There have been multiple reports that the Netflix money paid for a large chunk, if not all, of the first season's production costs.
If that is the case, then your "optimistic" estimate may not be optimistic enough.

Another unknown is if CBSAA is run as a "loss leader", deliberately running at a loss so as to generate future business which can then be leveraged for higher fees. Perhaps they are aiming for volume over profitability, or they acquired financing using the potential for future subscribers (Netflix borrows enormous amounts of money based on its projected future media dominance).

I think my overall view is that there are too many unknowable factors for us to do a reasonably accurate analysis of the "success" of DSC at least in regards its impact on CBSAA
 
Disagree. I think its unlikely CBSAA will achieve that success, but I do think it's possible if handled properly. CBS is an established network with a decades old TV library and access to numerous licensing deals and partnerships.
I think that if they are trying to replicate Netlfix's success, they need to pour significant resources into it - for example, getting the Paramount/Viacom/CBS movie library online - and heavily advertise the classics. New network shows as well as original streaming-only shows - do ten shows as popular as STD and you"ll gain traction. All this supposes that CBSAA isn't angling for a buyout from Amazon, Hulu or Netflix.

My understanding of the business plan is that CBS doesn't think that the cable model is sustainable, long-term. Everyone's going to be cord-cutting soon enough. (And man, are we going to miss those cable bundles.)

I don't see how CBSAA competes with Hulu, which is a better match than Netflix because it's supported by the other broadcast nets. (Except for the CW, which just goes its own way. ) OTOH, Hulu just may implode depending on Disney's plans.
 
All it takes to compete is more offerings and better quality. I get my rare TV content, personally, from Amazon Prime or from an unnamed streaming site reminiscent of a crunchy movie theater treat.
I have no idea how many shows CBS actually airs over broadcast or cable, but they should all be available on CBSAA.
 
[QUOTE="Jedman67, post: 12429263, member: 68750" All this supposes that CBSAA isn't angling for a buyout from Amazon, Hulu or Netflix.[/QUOTE]

I don't think a buyout is what they want. They could license the content to any of those and get basically the same thing.

I still think though that CBS is going to at some point merge their two steaming services that would create a very compelling service. I think there must be something with contracts and such that prevents that right now but I expect to see it in the future.
 
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