DSc should not be using active sensors to track Burnham,Tyler, Lorca. Likely unneeded until transporting Tyler back in DSC.
Discovery starship discussion [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Cpt. Kyle Amasov
- Start date
O'Brien used some kind of design flaw of the Constitution sensors to decloak and beam over the team. Maybe Shenzhou can be tricked the same way. After your responses and a little thinking, sensors detecting the beaming might not be the issue. I'd even go as far as to assume that, even if Burnham did not manipulate ISS Shenzhou's sensors to hide Discovery, Discovery's crew know a thing or two about Shenzhou to hide the ship from sensors.
TNG's effective transporter range is 40.000 kilometers. Assuming that this didn't change all thet much in 100 years, Discovery would be within 80.000 kilometers of Shenzhou. Assuming scanners detecting the ship *once it is there* are not a problem for the aforementioned reasons, they only need to cover up her approach (remember, they can always detect a subspace distortion).
TNG's effective transporter range is 40.000 kilometers. Assuming that this didn't change all thet much in 100 years, Discovery would be within 80.000 kilometers of Shenzhou. Assuming scanners detecting the ship *once it is there* are not a problem for the aforementioned reasons, they only need to cover up her approach (remember, they can always detect a subspace distortion).
MU tech in the 2250's is equivalent, better or worse than the PU? If the same, maybe you can fool the Shenzhou's sensors with a complacent crew?
Within just those 40,000, though - in Imperial Executions, the victims are beamed out right next to their starship, and Burnham would be in big trouble if discovered beaming Tyler farther out.
The range of TOS era transporters is more or less unknown. Forty thousand klicks was a record in ENT "Daedalus", by a wide margin, but we never quite learned how wide... And that tech was declared unworkable, with all of the research wasted, or at most providing a boost of "a few hundred kilometers" over the previous standard.
We didn't see long range transport in TOS or in ENT, only orbit-to-surface or -subsurface. And ship-to-ship was still usually across visual ranges (that is, two or three klicks at most) in the 24th century, except in rare cases like "Tin Man". Doesn't mean DSC would really contradict anything if showing a transport across tens of thousands of kilometers, though. Or even millions, as the 40k limit to TNG systems is purely anecdotal and e.g. the bailout transporters of "First Duty" explicitly did much better.
Timo Saloniemi
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I thought TOS transporters had a range of about 30000 km, but unllikely to have a canonical source.
IIRC from the earliest episodes, Discovery could make small jumps without a Tardigrade or Stamets in the chamber? Perhaps they made one such local jump to receive Tyler.
I think that’s gone the way of the black badges. Otherwise, they probably wouldn’t have needed Stamets for all the micro-jumps, since they were sticking fairly close to the Sarcophagus Ship.
IIRC, Lorca said they could only go a few hundred or thousand kilometers in a computer-plotted jump, so you actually could beam something further.
Maybe you cannot hundred quick jumps without Stamets? Certainly one short jump to get into transporter range.
It's not a big problem as such: a lot of plot time passes between the last time we see the Discovery remaining in the debris field and the time we see her pick up Tyler.
And indeed there would be rather little reason for the ship to remain in the debris. Even if Saru's instructions weren't exactly to shadow Burnham just outside sensor range (that is, the inferior range of the barely-good-enough sensors of the mindless brutes who pass for engineers in the MU), he would do well to move around a bit, perhaps pretending to hunt down rebels or whatnot.
After all, if the heroes could locate and then summon the Shenzhou with just her sensors, somebody else might locate the Discovery and challenge her to explain herself. This may be something of a discrepancy, being able to sense other ships from perhaps sectors across while not being able to tell somebody is sneaking to within transporter range - but it may also be as simple as homing in on an IFF beacon vs. turning it off.
Or then the Discovery simply has vastly superior sensors. Perhaps not by virtue of being RU, but by virtue of being a science ship. (The local variant, flown by the real Captain Killy, might not enjoy such an advantage - I can't see her opting for a science ship!)
Timo Saloniemi
And indeed there would be rather little reason for the ship to remain in the debris. Even if Saru's instructions weren't exactly to shadow Burnham just outside sensor range (that is, the inferior range of the barely-good-enough sensors of the mindless brutes who pass for engineers in the MU), he would do well to move around a bit, perhaps pretending to hunt down rebels or whatnot.
After all, if the heroes could locate and then summon the Shenzhou with just her sensors, somebody else might locate the Discovery and challenge her to explain herself. This may be something of a discrepancy, being able to sense other ships from perhaps sectors across while not being able to tell somebody is sneaking to within transporter range - but it may also be as simple as homing in on an IFF beacon vs. turning it off.
Or then the Discovery simply has vastly superior sensors. Perhaps not by virtue of being RU, but by virtue of being a science ship. (The local variant, flown by the real Captain Killy, might not enjoy such an advantage - I can't see her opting for a science ship!)
Timo Saloniemi
I wonder if MU weapons are superior to PU ones, and sensors are inferior?
Maybe short of milking tech from the Defiant, MU tech is behind that of the Federation?
Maybe short of milking tech from the Defiant, MU tech is behind that of the Federation?
We just watched the In A Mirror Darkly episodes of ENT, and it seems that the ol’ NX-01 was using her pulsed plasma weapons instead of phase cannons; this suggests that the newer tech wasn’t yet in common use in alt-2155, and thus that the MU was a bit behind on the times despite having many more NX-class warships than our nicer universe at the same time. Even if the parallels of the MU don’t make much rational sense, there are bound to be places where one universe was ahead or behind the other in key areas. The MU could corner the market on agonizer tech in the prime universe, I’d say...
Mark
PS- suddenly got way too damn busy for my more exhaustive tech observations. Will live vicariously through those in this thread until I can catch up. Go forth, young men!
Mark
PS- suddenly got way too damn busy for my more exhaustive tech observations. Will live vicariously through those in this thread until I can catch up. Go forth, young men!
...Them, and me too.
Advanced and adopted might be different concepts in Trek. You can always get high tech by buying or, in the case of the Empire, stealing. And you can adopt that high tech for use without actually having reached the level of advancement involved, at your peril. Which is why Mirror Tucker isn't pretty. No doubt our anti-heroes also suffer the consequences of their callous use of the transporter, as opposed to the shuttlepods their regular counterparts always preferred...
Timo Saloniemi
Advanced and adopted might be different concepts in Trek. You can always get high tech by buying or, in the case of the Empire, stealing. And you can adopt that high tech for use without actually having reached the level of advancement involved, at your peril. Which is why Mirror Tucker isn't pretty. No doubt our anti-heroes also suffer the consequences of their callous use of the transporter, as opposed to the shuttlepods their regular counterparts always preferred...
Timo Saloniemi
And then we go Vaulting. Blood! Blood!
As regards all of the above, I love the smell of a plan coming together at the long dark teatime of the soul. All these internet predictions were right (except for the ones that were wrong and nobody wants to think about any more), and the reveals so far have IMHO been beautifully done.
Here's hoping we get to see a few more vessels with ISS on them...
Timo Saloniemi
New tech here, mainly MU stuff not familiar from the PU...
- The Palace is gorgeous. Both a ring drive (with an uncontained core) and three nacelles, or then just pieces of eeeeevil tech shaped like those?
- OTOH, the Palace is some warp travel away from the Shenzhou - not much, a few minutes (hours?) at shuttlecraft warp 1, but nevertheless far enough that she apparently wasn't the invisible ship that fired those torpedoes at the rebels.
- So the Secret Rebel HQ is this short warp hop away from the Palace? Probably it's more a case of Ancient War Wisdom, with the Palace actually having been moved to the vicinity of the Rebels for the coup de grace.
- Is that shuttle modified from its PU appearance by more than paint and grime and lighting, or not?
- The Emperor is not entirely faceless, but known to a cadre of trusted officers. Of course, she seems to recycle that cadre every forthnight or so (a beautiful 1980s scifi reference to a certain famous killer frisbee?). And the folks aboard the Shenzhou need not have known the face, but would have known the wisdom of not disagreeing with somebody who claims to be the Emperor.
- All the stuff relevant to "Tholian Web" and "In a Mirror, Darkly" is accounted for now.
- The top agonizing booths of the Palace are on a scummy deck looking like the Discovery shuttlebay...
- The MU hypospray is suitably nasty. Perhaps designed to hurt?
- USS Stamets! Why is she NCC-1019?
- We get our exit card for the spore drive, and it looks ugly.
- We also have exit cards pending for basically all the characters and oddities we have ever argued about. And Voq is dealt with. (Or is he?)
- The Palace is gorgeous. Both a ring drive (with an uncontained core) and three nacelles, or then just pieces of eeeeevil tech shaped like those?
- OTOH, the Palace is some warp travel away from the Shenzhou - not much, a few minutes (hours?) at shuttlecraft warp 1, but nevertheless far enough that she apparently wasn't the invisible ship that fired those torpedoes at the rebels.
- So the Secret Rebel HQ is this short warp hop away from the Palace? Probably it's more a case of Ancient War Wisdom, with the Palace actually having been moved to the vicinity of the Rebels for the coup de grace.
- Is that shuttle modified from its PU appearance by more than paint and grime and lighting, or not?
- The Emperor is not entirely faceless, but known to a cadre of trusted officers. Of course, she seems to recycle that cadre every forthnight or so (a beautiful 1980s scifi reference to a certain famous killer frisbee?). And the folks aboard the Shenzhou need not have known the face, but would have known the wisdom of not disagreeing with somebody who claims to be the Emperor.
- All the stuff relevant to "Tholian Web" and "In a Mirror, Darkly" is accounted for now.
- The top agonizing booths of the Palace are on a scummy deck looking like the Discovery shuttlebay...
- The MU hypospray is suitably nasty. Perhaps designed to hurt?
- USS Stamets! Why is she NCC-1019?
- We get our exit card for the spore drive, and it looks ugly.
- We also have exit cards pending for basically all the characters and oddities we have ever argued about. And Voq is dealt with. (Or is he?)
As regards all of the above, I love the smell of a plan coming together at the long dark teatime of the soul. All these internet predictions were right (except for the ones that were wrong and nobody wants to think about any more), and the reveals so far have IMHO been beautifully done.
Here's hoping we get to see a few more vessels with ISS on them...
Timo Saloniemi
Lorca supposedly dragged him from civilian research; Emperor Philippatine appears to have done the same. Perhaps she isn't as ignorant of the spore drive as she pretends to be, and in fact drafted MU Stamets after finding out from the Defiant records that the guy and his research are important? Or then MU Lorca did that.
I rather doubt there really is or ever will be a ship named after the man or his family...
Timo Saloniemi
I rather doubt there really is or ever will be a ship named after the man or his family...
Timo Saloniemi
Oh, I thought that was an indicator of the corridors he was running around being LITERALLY his mental-mycelial construct. That, plus his unerring ego, would make perfect sense to swap in his own name on the local name plate. Was that plate even there on the Discovery engine room OR that of the Glenn? I certainly wouldn't be surprised, given how this era of Starfleet likes to brand EVERYTHING with the name and logo of the ship.
On the USS Charon sets - how much are newbuilds? Evil Stamets' lab where he wakes up was a very thinly-veiled redress of the Shenzhou ready room, with the lights turned down and a big ol' Empire logo placed on the back wall (of a LAB?!). The throne room doesn't look like it was from the Sarcophagus Ship, though it's too bad we may have seen the last of THAT one. The Emperor's dining room seems to be a newbuild (or perhaps a repurpose of a Sarco ship lap or storage room), but Hall of Agony (sic) where Lorca spends much of his time is a redress of the Discovery's shuttlebay / mushroomroom partial set, and also seems to have inherited the holographic projection pillars from the Discovery's not-holodeck to be used as general lighting fixtures.
Mark
On the USS Charon sets - how much are newbuilds? Evil Stamets' lab where he wakes up was a very thinly-veiled redress of the Shenzhou ready room, with the lights turned down and a big ol' Empire logo placed on the back wall (of a LAB?!). The throne room doesn't look like it was from the Sarcophagus Ship, though it's too bad we may have seen the last of THAT one. The Emperor's dining room seems to be a newbuild (or perhaps a repurpose of a Sarco ship lap or storage room), but Hall of Agony (sic) where Lorca spends much of his time is a redress of the Discovery's shuttlebay / mushroomroom partial set, and also seems to have inherited the holographic projection pillars from the Discovery's not-holodeck to be used as general lighting fixtures.
Mark
Kind of wondering if that glowing orb is actually an energy-mass driver, like the whole ship is shaped like a planet-killing railgun, which may explain its ability to lay waste to whole worlds. It may not be a power source at all, but an immense weapon that's always ready to fire.
Unly to learn the propulsion method on the Charon??