I was scanning through the transcripts and didn't find anything. But it was a brief skim. I've been wanting to rewatch the episodes, so I might do that later today.
Discovery Showrunners fired; Kurtzman takes over
- Thread starter StCoop
- Start date
I was scanning through the transcripts and didn't find anything. But it was a brief skim. I've been wanting to rewatch the episodes, so I might do that later today.
The Eugenics War was fought with clunky boots, plush animal backpacks, and Adidas track pants.
We lost.
We lost.
Those are minor details, not at all comparable to a global war. Fiction that is set in 'real world' often has things that really don't exist, but could. I don't think most people would classify Midsomer Murders as alternate reality because England has no county named Midsomer in reality. Same with stuff like Voyager 6, sure, a probe with that exact definition did not exist, but similar probes did. All fiction deviate from reality somewhat, that's what makes it fiction. (Also, Past Tense is still in the future, it is set in 2024, and it was in even farther future when it was made. And considering the shit American government is currently doing, it doesn't seem unrealistic at all.)
So we can fudge one thing to make it work, but not others? There was an awful lot of conflict on the planet in the 1990's (much like there always is). Or we can take the track that some people consider the Eugenics Wars as part of World War III. Much like some people consider that World War II was more a continuation of World War I than its own separate event even though they are separated by twenty-plus years.
There's any number of ways to spin things that leaves the Eugenics Wars (including the track that @Greg Cox took with his novels) exactly where Spock (someone who is always sure of his facts) states they take place, 1992-1996.
The weird thing is how many people I see arguing that all Trek really needs is to return to "the formula" and shed canon/continuity. In their own ways, both VOY and ENT were attempts by the Berman-era team to avoid the "tired old stories." VOY went to a whole new area of the galaxy, and ENT went back in time to an era well before TOS. Yet they both failed to live up to their full potential. Either the writers wrote the exact same kind of stories that they had in the past - only with new aliens rather than familiar ones - or they gave into fanwank and they did things like improbably brought the Ferengi in. In contrast, DS9 kept to the same time and space that TNG did, but told much different stories, because it messed with "the formula" by pulling away from following a crew of Starfleet officers on a moving ship.
Basically, "Starfleet crew explores the galaxy" is a procedural formula as much as any cop show. Of course you can tell more interesting stories onboard the ship than that, but too it's easy to fall into. I will predict that, whether or not it's any good at it, we're going to get some typical Trek procedural plots out of season 2 of DIS.
A modern pop/hip hop star from Canada. Honestly even though I know who he is I couldn't name a single one of his songs, although I'm sure I've heard them before
I admit to never being a comic book fan, even as a very nerdy kid. They were one of my older brother's things, hence I avoided them. But my general perception was that most comic book series focus upon either a single protagonist or a small team. Excluding total pulphouse junk, the story which is told is often a very personal one - going from their origin through to their inner emotional turmoil. Relatively little work is done on consistent worldbuilding compared to say literary science fiction (which was my wheelhouse from preteen days). If you don't connect or identify with the characters in some way, there's very little reason to read it.
Voyager 6 is a really minor fudge. If you told most people that there was such a probe, they would believe you. They do not remember how many probes there were and how they were named. It is thing that easily could have existed, and would not have impacted most people one bit. Global war involving super people on the other hand is quite a different matter...
I really see no point clinging on that reference to 90's as if you want to keep Trek roughly in line with real history (and I do), you need to go to extraordinary lengths to mutate EW into some bizarre secret conflict or way more contained affair than implied. So I'd rather keep the essence of EW (it was a huge global world war involving genetically enhanced superpeople and probably nukes) and ditch the date (Lasers, James R. Kirk, EW in the 90s, I'm not hung up on these.)
But this is just how I generally view the canon. I try to maintain the general gist of things, rather than need every minutiae matching. It's like with warp speeds, I rather ignore some throw away reference to distance in one episode which would imply ludicrous warp speeds, rather than come up with some convoluted theory involving never mentioned warp corridors or Cochrane variables or what have you. But to each their own.
Last edited:
Then the fan base could have been kinder to him.
No, that's not accurate. I can see your point of view, but the general premise of Star Trek is our future, with some details being amended going forward. As mentioned by @cultcross, among others, the times that time travel shenanigans result in going back to specific periods, it is indistinguishable from our own.
Regardless, the larger point still stands-the basic premise is our future and optimism that contemporary problems will be solved. That's the underlying optimism, and despite arguments to the contrary, undermines the fundamental basis of Star Trek's concept.
No.
webpage said:
Hopefully the Handmaid outfit will never become mainstream, because if it does, it will likely mean that whoever is running the government in the U.S. has mistaken the novel for a how-to manual in setting up a fascist dictatorship, nominally based on cherry-picked verses from the Old Testament.
I'm constantly amazed from seeing comments on the YT pages, just how many people really haven't read the relevant chapters in Genesis that deals with the story of Rachel and Leah, who were both the wives of Jacob... and Rachel decided to have Jacob impregnate her servant/slave and just hand any babies born over to Rachel as though they were her biological children.
Personally, I don't believe there ever were any notes for Dune, at least none that were ever followed.
Each Borg used to be an individual person, who was assimilated. There's a universe of personality, emotion, individual thoughts, and so on that's trapped inside each Borg. They can't access any of that unless they're disconnected from the Hive Mind.
So I don't see them as mindless robots or monsters. They're previous victims, forced to victimize others in turn.
No they really hadn't.
ENT gave two conflicting dates for the Eugenics War. In the season 3 episode Hatchery Archer spoke of a great-grandfather who fought in the Eugenics War, which would place it in the late 21st century. But the Dr. Soong arc of season 4 actually does specify the 20th century.
I think you’re a bit late there
Short of a complete reboot of all trek canon, there's no way to keep compounding all the differences as minor date differences.
I think the Bell Riots should be about to happen. The differing dates for Eugenics Wars (which must predate WW3), the Bell Riots, World War 3, Post Atomic Horrors, then the capability of building DY class ships, all point to a very different universe than reality has wrought. Trek has to be understood in its own time with very little to do with ours. So they mention Elon Musk: they have a different one, there. Elon, you got a mention, but Bezos got a walk-on.
One could also mention that at least the first of the Kzin Wars kick in sometime before the events of Enterprise.) This is a world in Which NASA continued the Voyager program well after the first 2 probes were launched in the 70's.. and one of them went through that wormhole from Interstellar I mean went somewhere). One could argue they simply named other probes that exist like Gallileo, Ulysses, and Cassini as part of the program. Maybe that makes New Horizons V'ger.
Trek's Earth dusted itself after a series of catastrophes and immediately started colonizing the solar system and sending out ships like Friendship One, the Bonaventure, the ECS frighters, and the massive Conestoga, within a decade of sending out a cobbled together test ship on a borrowed ICBM.
There's no way all that development happens before the flight of the Phoenix. And it doesn't really matter. It's a fake universe and it happened in its own time period, which is arguable only passingly like ours.
I think the Bell Riots should be about to happen. The differing dates for Eugenics Wars (which must predate WW3), the Bell Riots, World War 3, Post Atomic Horrors, then the capability of building DY class ships, all point to a very different universe than reality has wrought. Trek has to be understood in its own time with very little to do with ours. So they mention Elon Musk: they have a different one, there. Elon, you got a mention, but Bezos got a walk-on.
One could also mention that at least the first of the Kzin Wars kick in sometime before the events of Enterprise.) This is a world in Which NASA continued the Voyager program well after the first 2 probes were launched in the 70's.. and one of them went through that wormhole from Interstellar I mean went somewhere). One could argue they simply named other probes that exist like Gallileo, Ulysses, and Cassini as part of the program. Maybe that makes New Horizons V'ger.
Trek's Earth dusted itself after a series of catastrophes and immediately started colonizing the solar system and sending out ships like Friendship One, the Bonaventure, the ECS frighters, and the massive Conestoga, within a decade of sending out a cobbled together test ship on a borrowed ICBM.
There's no way all that development happens before the flight of the Phoenix. And it doesn't really matter. It's a fake universe and it happened in its own time period, which is arguable only passingly like ours.
Nope. Eugenics Wars was "the era of your last so-called world war." So it must have happened after WWIII, which was in mid 21st century. And EW happened in the 1990s... Hmm... So the issue is not only reconciling ST history with the real history, it contradicts itself as well.
There's also the Valiant, which was launched close to the time of the Pheonix. I like to think "200 years ago" in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" was stretching rounding off as far as it could go. No way would it be literal, because then the Valiant would've been lost in 2065, a mere two years after First Contact. And judging by the state of things at that point...
I like the promise of Star Trek's future in general, just not how they have to get there if it's supposed to be us. Nuclear Winters (referenced in TNG's "A Matter of Time") aren't really my thing.
the problem with that is WWIII is shown to have either ended or at least gone into a long ceasefire shortly before 2063.
There's no mention of Eugenics wars after contact with Vulcan. In any case it's mentioned they take place in the 1990's, whereas Col. Green who is very much linked with WW3, was in the 21st century. They have to be seperate wars.
Or not. Great War, World War I. Regardless, it is plainly stated that 1) WWIII was in the mid 21st century, 2) that Eugenics War was the latest world war 3) and it happened in the 1990's. All of these literally cannot be true. Personally I choose to ignore #3, while many people seem to see that as immutable gospel, yet at the same time happily jettison #2 (from the same episode!)
Unless WWIII is actually set in the 21st century BC.
