Discovery Showrunners fired; Kurtzman takes over

[Vger23]

I'd also argue that some of those "clicks" are from people who couldn't have been bothered with those shows in first-run, and are now doing the catch-up because it's basically free to do so.

Again, another perspective on what inconclusive or out-of-context data (this is why I click on VOY a lot...and watched all of ENT essentially) can mean. I don't click on these shows because they're my favorite. I click on them because I barely even watched them in first-run, and it's fun now to occasionally catch a few on a boring night if there's nothing else to do.

It's a simple formula...if those series truly were most popular and marketable, you'd be getting more of that in the current franchise direction.

 

[fireproof78]

Be happy to! Magic tech is actually one of the easiest issues to solve despite the odd claim that it's some unbreachable wall. They can start by explaining how things work again. Remember when we all knew how and why things worked on a starship, Lt. Saavik? Now the JJBridge and the DISC bridge look like Apple stores with absolutely no sense of functionality or purpose. I challenge anyone to educate me on what any given station on Discovery's bridge, based on a single line of dialogue, is supposed to do other than Detmer's helm. Silly techosplanations can go out the same airlock, and not including time travel is fairly easy.

So, see you at the new series? And wait - why in the heck did you like DISC again?

I like the characters.

Also, I can under the Abrams bridge fine. Never understood the "Apple store" criticism. Can someone explain to me what the TOS consoles do?

Like the Spore Drive ^_^

Yup.

.


The bridge of the Kelvin Enterprise looks like an Apple Store. Bar-none. The Discovery bridge really doesn't. It's not white and super-shiny. It's more like Galactica meets the Star Trek VI Enterprise-A but a bit more spacious.

Never makes sense to me this criticism.

 

[Jadeb]

Let's not forget that at one point fandom held that there was no way the TOS pajamas could *ever* work on the big screen -- and even less chance we'd see them there. And I imagine people would have been even more incredulous about the possibility of a Cage-era series.

At some point, maybe after the TOS era ceases to rake in the bucks, I expect the right person -- someone with the rproper bona fides and a track record of making money -- will say, "Hey, let's dust off TNG!" or the like. That's how Doctor Who came back.

 

[Vger23]

I like the characters.

Also, I can under the Abrams bridge fine. Never understood the "Apple store" criticism. Can someone explain to me what the TOS consoles do?


Never makes sense to me this criticism.

I actually think that the DSC bridge is the most interesting, visually appealing, and functional/realistic since the TMP bridge sets.

 

[Phaser Two]

Good lord. No one is saying that a post-VOY series has to be just like VOY. I have rarely seen such a heroic effort to pound such a silly strawman. Yes, I liked Voyager, but do I want seven more years of the same stuff? No! Repeat, no! I just want good stories that feel and look like Star Trek and my preferred time period is sometime after Voyager. Geez.

 

[Vger23]

Let's not forget that it wasn't long ago that fandom held that there was no way the TOS pajamas could *ever* work on the big screen -- and even less chance we'd see them there. And I imagine people would have been even more incredulous about the possibility of a Cage-era series.

At some point, maybe after the TOS era ceases to rake in the bucks, I expect the right person -- someone with the rproper bona fides and a track record of making money -- will say, "Hey, let's dust off TNG!" or the like. That's how Doctor Who came back.

I like TNG, but I really do think this is highly unlikely. You don't often re-boot a spin-off (think about that) in a niche franchise.

 

[fireproof78]

I actually think that the DSC bridge is the most interesting, visually appealing, and functional/realistic since the TMP bridge sets.

I think the Abrams one stands above Discovery but I agree about the TMP design.

 

[Refuge]

I'd also argue that some of those "clicks" are from people who couldn't have been bothered with those shows in first-run, and are now doing the catch-up because it's basically free to do so.

Again, another perspective on what inconclusive or out-of-context data (this is why I click on VOY a lot...and watched all of ENT essentially) can mean. I don't click on these shows because they're my favorite. I click on them because I barely even watched them in first-run, and it's fun now to occasionally catch a few on a boring night if there's nothing else to do.

It's a simple formula...if those series truly were most popular and marketable, you'd be getting more of that in the current franchise direction.

It could be argued it is what it... is. A statistic of what was most re-watched amongst choices.

 

[Jadeb]

I like TNG, but I really do think this is highly unlikely. You don't often re-boot a spin-off (think about that) in a niche franchise.

Yeah, but Trek makes money, and a franchise that runs 50+ years needs novelty to get butts in seats. We probably won't get TNG, exactly, but I don't doubt there will be future Trek product in eras other than TOS. Depending on how desperate All Access gets, we may see it sooner rather than later.

 

[Vger23]

Good lord. No one is saying that a post-VOY series has to be just like VOY. I have rarely seen such a heroic effort to pound such a silly strawman. Yes, I liked Voyager, but do I want seven more years of the same stuff? No! Repeat, no! I just want good stories that feel and look like Star Trek and my preferred time period is sometime after Voyager. Geez.

Phaser, nobody is saying that. Nobody.

What I'm saying (literally for the 11th time now) is that the general public, who the studios absolutely MANDATE need to be marketed to, relate to "Kirk and Spock" and all that TOS stuff. So whatever way they get there, they need to have the TOS hook to satisfy that.

This is why you see everything relating back to TOS.

The other thing I've said far less often (but perhaps more clearly since it doesn't get asked) is that the TNG-VOY timeframe is (right or wrongly) viewed as grossly played-out and stale. It's a dead horse to the powers that be. It's cooked. Done. Ova. Again...NOT MY OPINION. But it IS the perception of the suits and the studios who fund these damn things. You can see them purposefully trying to distance the core of anything done in the modern franchise from that era.

My whole premise, from minute-one that I started posting on this topic, is that people need to understand this dynamic. That's it. That's all I'm saying. And people keep coming back at it out of left field like "JESUS CHRIST, NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MINDS EVER SAID THEY WANT A KES AND NOG SERIES!!!!!1!1!"

Respectfully, that's not the argument, and I can't see how anyone could twist it in that way.

I'm just trying to be realistic about what the STRONG perceptions are about how you market and advance this franchise...and it starts and ends with TOS.

 

[Phaser Two]

I actually think that the DSC bridge is the most interesting, visually appealing, and functional/realistic since the TMP bridge sets.

Looks like I didn't make my point on that very clear; sorry. I'm not going to go back and quote my post but I believe I wrote that the functioning of the bridge is never explained or referred to in dialogue. This was obviously the writers' effort to stay away from having everything solved by reconfiguring the primary deflector dish to emit a termagantic pulse, but they went too far and didn't realize that this isn't Star Wars and some of us want to know how and why Trek technology functions, which can be satisfied with some interesting scenes where the ship (usually represented by the bridge, engineering, or the transporter room) is a character in itself. Surprisingly, ENT did this pretty well. VOY did as well except for the tetrionic beam stuff; the bridge looked great.

Visually, I shouldn't have compared the Discovery's bridge to the JJPrise bridge. It's much better except for the fact that Saru and Burnham are apparently expected to stand for their entire shifts, which is dumb. But the bridge crew were all pretty interesting, and so naturally we got almost no dialogue or development from or of any of them. Having more bridge scenes would address all these issues.

 

[Lord Garth]

Never makes sense to me this criticism.

I don't consider it a criticism. I like the Kelvin Enterprise bridge. And it fits the feel of the movies. Bright, shiny, fun, top-of-the-line. But it does remind me of when I walk into an Apple store. Apple stores look nice...

... but, overall I still prefer PCs.

And my choice of color to wear IRL is black. So I like the darker Discovery bridge. Not as dark as black, but dark enough. What can I say? I like what I like... but I'm into what I'm into.

 

[BillJ]

I like TNG, but I really do think this is highly unlikely. You don't often re-boot a spin-off (think about that) in a niche franchise.

A wildly successful spin-off, that had the most crossover appeal of any Star Trek during its first run.

Someone will eventually reboot it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

TNG doesn't have the pop culture legacy that TOS has. Most people know Picard -- or at least Picard memes. Some know Data. But anything beyond that is a wash. Like people know the guy with the goofy thing on his eyes. But he's either Kunta Kinte or the R&R guy. To the public at large "LaVar Burton" is that crazy dad of those two basketball players.

That makes no sense??

It makes perfect sense.

Indeed. Really 'most watched' and especially 're' watched does rather reflect interest

And says nothing about the causality of the interest. People are interested in Trolls 2 and it gets its fair share of clicks.

It could be argued it is what it... is. A statistic of what was most re-watched amongst choices.

And inferring anything beyond that is bad math.

I just want good stories that feel and look like Star Trek

What does Star Trek feel and look like? Seriously. I want to know.

 

[Jadeb]

What does Star Trek feel and look like? Seriously. I want to know.

Styrofoam rocks, sparkly cloth and underboob.

 

[Mudd]

I just want good stories that feel and look like Star Trek and my preferred time period is sometime after Voyager. Geez.

Pretend that STD is set after Voyager and you're fine. None of these are real time periods, and the shows are all the same - some better, some worse.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

No doubt, the CBS execs will have been running focus groups, and looking at netflix data after the first season. My feeling is that if the numbers point to a series like TNG and Voyager, being the most popular, the execs will infer that a series like TNG and Voyager will make them the most money. I think Discovery is going to get a big retooling in season 2 as a result.

 

[CorporalClegg]

execs will infer that a series like TNG and Voyager will make them the most money.

No they won't. Even the CBS people have better sense than that.

Maybe.

Okay. Maybe not.

 

[Phaser Two]

Phaser, nobody is saying that. Nobody.

What I'm saying (literally for the 11th time now) is that the general public, who the studios absolutely MANDATE need to be marketed to, relate to "Kirk and Spock" and all that TOS stuff. So whatever way they get there, they need to have the TOS hook to satisfy that.

This is why you see everything relating back to TOS.

The other thing I've said far less often (but perhaps more clearly since it doesn't get asked) is that the TNG-VOY timeframe is (right or wrongly) viewed as grossly played-out and stale. It's a dead horse to the powers that be. It's cooked. Done. Ova. Again...NOT MY OPINION. But it IS the perception of the suits and the studios who fund these damn things. You can see them purposefully trying to distance the core of anything done in the modern franchise from that era.

My whole premise, from minute-one that I started posting on this topic, is that people need to understand this dynamic. That's it. That's all I'm saying. And people keep coming back at it out of left field like "JESUS CHRIST, NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MINDS EVER SAID THEY WANT A KES AND NOG SERIES!!!!!1!1!"

Respectfully, that's not the argument, and I can't see how anyone could twist it in that way.

I'm just trying to be realistic about what the STRONG perceptions are about how you market and advance this franchise...and it starts and ends with TOS.

Vger, you're not saying it, but many others are. This is one of those message board phenomena where someone thinks they're being addressed when actually, it's others who are posting the challenged material. I could remedy this by going back and quoting the text to which I was responding, and perhaps I will in the future, if only to spare you!

Now, to your point, I respectfully disagree. I think you're looking at where Abrams went with his stuff before he got distracted by the shiny Star Wars object, and seeing where DISC went, and drawing a conclusion that isn't there. Since we know each other from the TOS board, you know I love it, and I've probably mentioned over there that it's far and away my favorite. But I think audiences would respond very well to a high-quality, well-written science fiction series with the ST nameplate set in some period of time post-Voyager and Nemesis. The "TNG Trio" didn't stay on air for 21 combined seasons by accident. Netflix viewing data bears this out, as does the now almost comical failure of the prequel/reboot concept on both the silver and small screens. I believe the message of the general public is unmistakable - do not want.

You may work for Paramount/CBS; I do not. Accordingly, I don't have any idea what the suits there want or think the public wants, but I bet they're catching on now. And again, I doubt any suit thinks the TNG era is played out because of characteristics endemic to that part of the in-universe timeline. If they do feel that way, it's probably because they got as tired of Jeri's catsuits as Kate (and probably Jeri) did, and had enough of the preposteronic pulse being funneled through the deflector array. My answer to this is simple: return to that era for about a dozen highly sensible reasons and subvert or eliminate the last three series' tropes. (I myself wanted to throw something every time someone on DS9 had to hold forth about what kind of raktajino they just ordered. JUST SHUT UP ALREADY! )

They can make a series like TOS without setting it twelve minutes before TOS starts, then hiring a bunch of hacks who have no idea how to contend with the obvious resulting problems. My suggestion is fixing the TOS homage within the quality of the writing and development of the characters, not by setting the darn series right next to TOS in the timeline.

 

[Vger23]

A wildly successful spin-off, that had the most crossover appeal of any Star Trek during its first run.

Someone will eventually reboot it.

I really, truly do not think so. I think you'll see more prequels, TOS reimagining and post-VOY stuff long before you'd see a re-boot of a Star Trek spinoff.