"We're thrown to the other side of the Galaxy, so very far from anything we know!"
...
Episode 5: "Hey, it's the Romulans!"
Discovery Showrunner Promises Season 2 Character Exploration And Tying Up Canon Loose Ends
- Thread starter Tuskin38
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"We're thrown to the other side of the Galaxy, so very far from anything we know!"
...
Episode 5: "Hey, it's the Romulans!"
And it was still the best episode of the season...
Voyager still has a lot of fanwank though, we get Janice Rand, Deanna Troi, Reginald Barclay Riker, Q, Geordi, Sulu, non of which do anything particularly interesting. Then there's loads of retreaded old ground with the same species, and the Borg Queen/tons of boring borg stuff.
I think fanwank was just less overbearingly noticeable for people at the time because nerd culture (or at least a bastardisation of) wasn't mainstream culture, and nowadays it is pretty common for big budget nonsense to be part of an extended universe and self-referential.
However, this complaint about fan-service totally undermines the other main criticism of Discover, which is the constant whinging about canon violations. You can't really have it both ways (Excepting huge things like the protagonist being Spock's adoptive sister).
For the record, I enjoyed the first season of DSC, not as much as I've enjoyed previous incarnations of Star Trek, but it's kind of ridiculous to be comparing my knee-jerk reaction to one season of 15 episodes of a show that came out when I was 27 years old to 30 seasons of TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT that came out over the course of 50 years and have been present on television for my entire life. It's never going to be as exciting for me as it was being 10 years old and renting First Contact from blockbuster. Which is part of the reason they shouldn't really care to much about people nitpicking on the internet. If they want to make money and keep themselves on the air than aiming for our liminal Trek-message-board-user demographic is not the way to do it.
I also think Voyager gets a bit of a bad wrap sometimes, in that it's high points don't reach the same highs as other shows so people seriously chastise Voyager for infractions that would not be so disparaged if present a different incarnation of Trek.
I think it has to do with the fact it was spread out over 178 episodes instead of fifteen.
At this point I don't give a shit anymore about canon. I just want it to grow into an overall solid Trek show that I'll look back fondly like I do with TOS, TNG, and DS9.
Lol, that does help, obvs.
But come on, after all of TNG did we really need three episodes of Marina Sirtis having even less to do than she did aboard the Enterprise. My eyes rolled into the back of my head and out my mouth when she mentions chocolate, at least there's a little more characterisation happening in Discovery. Although it remains to be seen how consistent it will be.
To be fair to the writers and CBS. the Kelvin movies have made a ridiculous amount of money, and they are full of needless fanwank.
Didn't Admiral Katrina Delet any record definetely?
Also, In DS9 Bashir knows about MU, and he is just a leautenant
I agree. If it manages to have it's own internal consistency throughout it's run, it would be a good thing. Never mind sticking to the previous canon. The writers should be researching interesting scientific an ethical dilemmas to depict, not researching trivia on memory alpha.
I think I am getting fuzzy on fan terms now.
Fanwank would mean having an episode like flashback all the time, but we make allowances for anniversary specials (which it was) or 45 mins devoted to something only fans care about...maybe the follow up to the barzan wormhole basically. Apart from that, only Rikers three minutes in the Delta quadrant probably fulfills the criteria, but since it’s not dwelt on, probably not...goes into Easter egg category.
Most of the last season of ENT falls into that category, and knows it full well, that was it’s intent. Funnily a lot of fans enjoyed the attention I hear.
DSC is entirely dependent on it for its central character, and it’s two main story arcs. Like ENT, it also knows it full well, and some fans aren’t liking the tweaking of their fan bits.
Fan service....
Gonna give it to DSC. More pants and flesh on display, and the reaction in some quarters to Domniatrix Tilly Seles the deal. Voy fans had to make do with Janeway and Torres in sweaty vests, Paris occasionally, and a Prison Tale With Tom and Harry. Seven could swing it, but given her day to day outfits, putting her in a uniform and fulfilling the women in uniform fetish that lurks in segments of the fandom is the only obvious fan service. I spose there’s some ‘oh look bums’ with various fancy dress outfits, but DSC has full nude L’Rell, so...DSC has a fan service win, even over torn shirt and bondage gear Kirk, probably tying for first with ENT and it’s various ‘gel me up for decontam baby’ scenes, and ‘where’s my shirt’ Archer.
Klingon naughty bits and Tilly Dom are really reaching for that win though.
...
I think I prefer VOY myself.
They keep setting themselves up for failure. They talk about Canon all the time, and so raise expectations from those who truly care about it. But whatever explanation they choose to go with wont actually satisfy.
They want to make it as visually stunning as they can, whilst insisting it fits into the canon. They see canon as non-visual so canon to the events and story, but not the visual style, typography, etc.
The sooner the show moves away from trying to establish itself in continuity, and starts adding new ideas to the franchise, the better it will be accepted.
They want to make it as visually stunning as they can, whilst insisting it fits into the canon. They see canon as non-visual so canon to the events and story, but not the visual style, typography, etc.
The sooner the show moves away from trying to establish itself in continuity, and starts adding new ideas to the franchise, the better it will be accepted.
This is definitely true. I know it's been said a million times, but I don't at all understand why they didn't just set it after Voyager and DS9. Non-trekkies who tune in aren't going to care either way, and us dorks are only going to nitpick if you set it in between two long established shows.
As I've said elsewhere, fankwank is what's popular wtih Trek fans. Look at the movies. TMP was sort of a rehash of a TOS episode, but it didn't contain much fanwank (except for those achingly long shots of the Enterprise, which were a different kind of wanking. TWOK, in contrast, was a fanwank plot - a direct sequel to a TOS episode.
Or hell, look at the TNG-era movies. The only one which is generally considered good is First Contact, which is undoubtedly the fanwankiest of the TNG movies - if not all of the Trek movies. The plot is based upon two separate threads of fanwank: Exploration of Zephram Cochrane and humanity's first steps towards the Trek future, and Picard's personal demons from his violation by the Borg in BoBW. In contrast, the other TNG-era movies had new antagonists and new plotlines, and generally were given a tepid response.
It's funny, because a lot of this gets down to a real divide I've noticed in Trek fandom about what Trek is. One side - the canon nerds - seems to think that Trek is the mythos that has built up over the decades. The other side seems to think Trek is about the format of the series, along with perhaps the tone or themes to a certain extent.
If you think the first is true, then (concerns about execution aside) you should have no issue accepting Discovery as a Trek series. If you think the latter is true, you probably see The Orville as more of a "Trek series" - since it's basically the Trek format sans the canon.
I wouldn't agree. I think VOY could hit the same high points as the other series, albeit typically only one or two times per season. And there honestly were few unwatchably terrible VOY episodes (maybe 10 at most). The problem is the mediocre level of VOY was far more boring than a mediocre TNG or DS9 episode.
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I don't think that counts. If anything, it's continuity done right. TWOK uses pre-existing events as a springboard to explore some really big themes -- aging, friendship, obsession, death. And it makes some really daring moves, from breaking the mold on Kirk to killing off Spock. I only wish Discovery had that much to say.
That was over 100 years later, starfleet could have deemed it not being a risk by then.
To be fair, they did it well. The Fanwank was there, but it didn't overwhelm the material.
Maybe in 09 and Beyond, but I think it's pretty fair to call Into Darkness fanwank.
Just because the terminology is getting muddled at this point, and others have put forward their interpretations of 'fanwank,' I thought I would explain what I intend it to mean in this context.
So they way I'm using it here is as being when a production plays to it's fanbase by peppering everything with internal references that the casual observer won't notice, but unlike a well thought out homage or an interesting subversion or joke based around existing knowledge and preconceptions, it is instead shallow lip service that does nothing to explore anything new conceptually or make new ground plot-wise. The production can get away with cashing in on the nostalgia/shared history of the viewership and, as this means they need not try for anything new, they simply spoon-feed the audience a steaming pile of diarrhea, albeit a heavily seasoned spoonful, so that while it may initially seem pleasant, it is ultimately without nourishment. But because this still garners huge pay packets for all involved, and even the most ardent detractors of recent installments will put down their money in future because they are gluttons for punishment, the perpetual dance of the fanwank circle-jerk remains in motion.
Except when Spock yelled "Khan!"
That was pretty overwhelming. The rest was fine.
I don't think Disco is too fankwanky. I really enjoyed their mirror universe arc. It was the first time Trek outside of comic books did that kind of MU story. And by now, mirror universes are such a well-worn trope (even Smallville had one, with Ultraman Clark Luthor) everyone gets it.
I'm not sure I agree the rest was fine. But that's all subjective anyway. (I mean, Spock prime bigging up what a badass Khan is/was?)
BUT! I will point out that in the run up to the release of the film we had at least a whole year of speculation and being told "It's not Khan" repeatedly, but then it was Khan, and it was a poor reveal in the film.
While this may not specifically be 'fanwank' it's definitely like 'fan-edging' or something.
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