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Discovery at SDCC - Consolidated Thread

starmike said:
I'm giving it a chance.
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So am I.

I'm putting trust in the people putting the show together. I'll be the first person to yell "this sucks" if it does, but there's NO point in wasting time complaining about something you haven't seen yet. Christ, this is like 1987 all over again where people handed out flyers at cons against TNG and nobody watched an episode of the show yet.
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You are aware that the Klingon designs, the bridge design and interface, and the secret sibling stuff are all public knowledge, right? So I'm not complaining about things I haven't seen. I'm not shouting this sucks, I'm saying these things concern me. I don't need to see an episode to know that the Klingon design bothers me. I don't need to see an episode to know the bridge design bothers me. I don't need to see an episode to know that a secret sibling bothers me. When I start bitching about the plot of the pilot episode before it's aired, then it will be complaining about something I haven't seen yet.

Again, it's not either or. It's not unconditional love or infinite bashing. You can criticize something and still like it. You can dislike some part of a thing but still enjoy the whole. I think you might be taking things too personally. A few criticisms of the show don't reflect poorly on you. Nor should they threaten your enjoyment or your fandom.
 
Fair enough. I just think things will make more sense in context, which we really don't have.

Are there things that are being look forward to? I keep hearing about how awful the Klingons are (agree to disagree) but what looks like fun?

Because, I'm not going to lie, regardless of the different designs, and whether I like them or not, there is a wonderful sense of adventure and fun that I am greatly looking forward too that I think VOY, ENT and NEM lacked.
 
fireproof78 said:
Fair enough. I just think things will make more sense in context, which we really don't have.

Are there things that are being look forward to? I keep hearing about how awful the Klingons are (agree to disagree) but what looks like fun?

Because, I'm not going to lie, regardless of the different designs, and whether I like them or not, there is a wonderful sense of adventure and fun that I am greatly looking forward too that I think VOY, ENT and NEM lacked.
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As someone who likes Voyager (its hugely flawed, but I still like it) I definitely don't agree with the last statement. As for your first question, for me personally I'm looking forward to the show ending but outside of that (hopefully sooner rather then later event) nothing looks fun or adventerous (more dark, broody and mindless action based on the trailer) but I'm hoping at least Martin-Green and Jason Isaacs put in performances that are good even if the material almost certainly won't be.

Those two are really all I'm holding out hope for. Well, them and a cameo by a Consititution class ship (it doesn't even have to be the Enterprise). If they get good performances and I see that ship, even if I hate everything else (which is about as certain as the sun rising at this point), it will have been worth seeing.
 
kirk55555 said:
As someone who likes Voyager (its hugely flawed, but I still like it) I definitely don't agree with the last statement. As for your first question, for me personally I'm looking forward to the show ending but outside of that (hopefully sooner rather then later event) nothing looks fun or adventerous (more dark, broody and mindless action based on the trailer) but I'm hoping at least Martin-Green and Jason Isaacs put in performances that are good even if the material almost certainly won't be.

Those two are really all I'm holding out hope for. Well, them and a cameo by a Consititution class ship (it doesn't even have to be the Enterprise). If they get good performances and I see that ship, even if I hate everything else (which is about as certain as the sun rising at this point), it will have been worth seeing.
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VOY was too repetitive. I was excited for it too, but it became way to repetitive that I lost interest.
I will be curious to see how long DSC will last. Though, I don't expect it to be as broody as the trailer shows. Trailers are ridiculous in their presentation of action, and are rarely edited by the production team.

I'm sorry that you hate it so much but I hope you find something to like :beer:
 
kirk55555 said:
They set up the expectation for more Trek, but are delivering what some people (including me) consider garbage.
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I can understand not liking some of the things as presented, especially visuals, as that is really all we know for sure about the show so far. And I guess I can understand thinking that Michal - as a previously unknown 'relative' of Spock - could be annoyingly Mary Sue (thought I don't agree), but I cannot fathom considering Discovery "garbage" at this point. We just have hints at the plot, hints at the characters, hints at everything. The show could turn out to be the most intellectual, action filled, emotional, consequential, currently relevant, timeless, quintessentially Star Trek show ever produced, but we won't know until we see it. The proof is in the pudding, and until you have taken at least one real bite, I don't see any justification for calling it garbage. Heck, I didn't even realize until about 1/2 way through Into Darkness that I thought it was garbage, but I couldn't really confirm it for sure until about 90% through.
 
Yeah, I don't judge until I actually experience.

The guy over at Ex Astris Scientia is going watch it because he needs to for the website lol. Even though he's already said he probably won't like it.

He said that he has no choice.
 
fireproof78 said:
VOY was too repetitive. I was excited for it too, but it became way to repetitive that I lost interest.
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Oh it was hugely flawed, and I'd rank it below TNG and DS9 (my #1 and #2 ranked Trek shows), but it had enough elements that I liked and enough good episodes that pulled it into decent territory for me, although I can definitely understand not liking it.

Ometiklan said:
I can understand not liking some of the things as presented, especially visuals, as that is really all we know for sure about the show so far. And I guess I can understand thinking that Michal - as a previously unknown 'relative' of Spock - could be annoyingly Mary Sue (thought I don't agree), but I cannot fathom considering Discovery "garbage" at this point. We just have hints at the plot, hints at the characters, hints at everything. The show could turn out to be the most intellectual, action filled, emotional, consequential, currently relevant, timeless, quintessentially Star Trek show ever produced, but we won't know until we see it. The proof is in the pudding, and until you have taken at least one real bite, I don't see any justification for calling it garbage. Heck, I didn't even realize until about 1/2 way through Into Darkness that I thought it was garbage, but I couldn't really confirm it for sure until about 90% through.
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Everyone has their own standards for how to judge things. Since every single thing except the starfleet ship designs and two of the actors are, in my opinion, terrible, I can safely write off the show. If I wasn't such a big sci fi nerd and Trekkie, and I wouldn't waste any time with it. But, for subjects I like I can sit through some bad stuff, so I'll watch to stay current on what Trek is doing if for no other reason. Plus, the fact that it could actually be worse then the first two seasons of Enterprise makes me morbidly curious to see where it goes even if I hate every second of it.
 
You'd write off Hamlet 'cause you don't like the design of the crown or the color of Ophelia's dress, kirk55555!? Man, just wait for it..... but if you're going in determined not to like something, chances are you're not going to like it.... each to his own I guess, but I find it curious to come back and spread the hatred around like you do...
 
Bryan Fuller probably named her, hes used typically male sounding names/nicknames for female characters before.
 
kirk55555 said:
Oh it was hugely flawed, and I'd rank it below TNG and DS9 (my #1 and #2 ranked Trek shows), but it had enough elements that I liked and enough good episodes that pulled it into decent territory for me, although I can definitely understand not liking it.

Everyone has their own standards for how to judge things. Since every single thing except the starfleet ship designs and two of the actors are, in my opinion, terrible, I can safely write off the show. If I wasn't such a big sci fi nerd and Trekkie, and I wouldn't waste any time with it. But, for subjects I like I can sit through some bad stuff, so I'll watch to stay current on what Trek is doing if for no other reason. Plus, the fact that it could actually be worse then the first two seasons of Enterprise makes me morbidly curious to see where it goes even if I hate every second of it.
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I agree with you on many of these things: TNG and DS9 (#2 and #1 for me, respectively, though TNG is my sentimental fave), Voyager having some good enough elements to pull it into decent territory, and I agree that people all can and do have their own standards, I just don't see that there is enough to judge Discovery on yet. I can understand thinking "I don't like what I am seeing so far", but that is a far cry from calling something garbage without having seen even one full scene of the show.

So one more question, you mention two good actors, and that makes me wonder who you don't like out of the big names? The big 4 that I think are all good actors are Isaacs, Yeoh, Jones, and Wilson. Who don't you like?
 
Galaxy said:
That is not what I heard. The novels (Pocket Books) are not allowed to use events mentioned in the Kelvin Timeline (e.g. destruction of Romulus) because this is not on their CBS license.
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That might be the case but that would be because CBS made themselves. CBS owns ST, so unless they specifically agreed with Paramount not to use things from the movie, they can.
 
Ometiklan said:
So one more question, you mention two good actors, and that makes me wonder who you don't like out of the big names? The big 4 that I think are all good actors are Isaacs, Yeoh, Jones, and Wilson. Who don't you like?
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I've thought that Rain Wilson in unfunny and annoying since I first saw him (and his part in the trailer was extremely cringe-y and didn't feel remotely like Harry Mudd from TOS, not that Mudd was a partcularly good character but Wilson just didn't have the same feel), Yeoh I only know from her James Bond appearance and apparent cameo in GotG 2 so I don't really have an opinion on her and Jones I've only seen as the physical actor for someone else's voice (in Hellboy and Fantastic Four 2) so I don't know how he is as an actor. Isaacs I've seen in a bunch of things and he's usually very good and Martin-Green I've never seen but she looks like she'll end up being a good choice.
 
kirk55555 said:
I've thought that Rain Wilson in unfunny and annoying since I first saw him (and his part in the trailer was extremely cringe-y and didn't feel remotely like Harry Mudd from TOS, not that Mudd was a partcularly good character but Wilson just didn't have the same feel), Yeoh I only know from her James Bond appearance and apparent cameo in GotG 2 so I don't really have an opinion on her and Jones I've only seen as the physical actor for someone else's voice (in Hellboy and Fantastic Four 2) so I don't know how he is as an actor. Isaacs I've seen in a bunch of things and he's usually very good and Martin-Green I've never seen but she looks like she'll end up being a good choice.
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You literally said EVERY SINGLE THING is terrible, now it appears you're not familiar with many actors and admit you don't have enough to form an opinion on them....... I know I should respect your opinion, so I won't pursue this, but 'Every single thing' was a stretch.... ;)
 
Roald said:
You literally said EVERY SINGLE THING is terrible, now it appears you're not familiar with many actors and admit you don't have enough to form an opinion on them....... I know I should respect your opinion, so I won't pursue this, but 'Every single thing' was a stretch.... ;)
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What do the actors have to do with anything? While I think two of them might be basically the only redeeming factors (along with the Federation ships), good actors can't save a terrible show/movie. At best, they make their time on screen slightly more tolerable, assuming even a good actor can elevate the material to the level of "tolerable", and I've seen even amazing actors like Patrick Stewart in things where even they can't make a movie tolerable. So, yeah, I don't really count the actors as a factor in the show, outside of two of them possibly being one of the few things that aren't a trainwreck about the production. That doesn't mean they can save the show, they can't. A cast filled with the best actors in human history couldn't save the show.

All the elements that can really make or break the show are, in my opinion, already revealed and are complete garbage. One or two actors being good will help my sanity when I have to suffer through this insult to the franchise, but it doesn't make the show not be crap. In my opinion, that's already set in stone.
 
Tuskin38 said:
So story and dialogue doesn't factor in for you?
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The "story" involves those abominations they call klingons, which can't be justified, and Sarek's secret adoptive daughter. Plus, one of the people in charge of the show co-wrote the single worst ST thing ever, ST 09, and the former showrunner who was in charge of the show creatively definitely had some messed up ideas about Trek before he quit to do that American Gods crap. So, yeah, story matters. But the quality of the story has, for me, already been decided.

For me, no one on Earth could write a good story with these elements. So, I'd argue story is a big factor. Also, dialog has been decided based on that crappy "Oh, look how deep I am" quote that Martin-Green's character says in the trailer. The story is a factor in how much I already hate this show.
 
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