Spoilers Discovery and the Novelverse - TV show discussion thread

[Sci]

Yes, I realize that. Like I said, it's a pet peeve of mine, I did not intend to say that was the same as yours. I agree with what your saying about charting new territory though. But yes, that is different than consistency with continuity and set design.

Each person has things they look for and so forth. I just prefer more internal consistency (though as I always point out, just from an overall, general perspective, NOT to every detail--I'd like to think I'm at least somewhat flexible, hence my ability o overlook some inconsistencies in Enterprise because there was more balance there).

And before anyone say it, I know the show runners aren't beholden in any way to my own personal tastes. I bring them up here just for conversation purposes. The show runners will handle things however they want. I have absolutely zero expectations that my opinions count for squat in the grand scheme of things (not that I'd even want that kind of responsibility frankly)

Also, I've still enjoyed many other things about Discovery. The parts I don't care for haven't been 'fatal flaws' in my eyes. I have the first 2 seasons on Blu-Ray and look forward to season 3 when it comes out on Blu-Ray so I've found more good than bad.

That's fair. All things considered, I would have preferred it if DIS had gone with a more TOS-influenced aesthetic, though I recognize the logic in going with a Kelvin aesthetic instead. Though taken on its own, the DIS design aesthetic really is lovely too.

 

[JD]

The problem is that none of those character is as iconic as Spock. No offense to any of them, but they simply don't have the same marquee value. "Spock's sister!" is a jaw-dropper. "Tuvok's foster daughter" just doesn't have the same "Wow!" effect.

It's like substituting Martian Manhunter for Batman. They just aren't equivalent in terms of fame and pop-culture cachet.

I understand that, but I was trying to come up with a 24th Century Vulcan, and Tuvok is probably the most popular.

I've said it before, but I still think every weird or bad decision made in the early Discovery episodes goes back to Bryan Fuller, and the farther they've gotten from his contributions the better the shows has gotten.
The one that I really don't get is the Klingons, I don't understand why he was so insistent on making them so unrecognizable. It seems weird to me to take one of the franchises most iconic aliens, and then change almost everything about them, to point that they are practically unrecognizable. They did grow on me as the seasons went on, and I really like them now, but they still don't really feel like the Klingons we saw in TNG-Ent or in TOS. I've pretty much completely separated them from the other Klingons in my mind.
I don't know what happened with Fuller when it came to DIS, I really liked what he did in Pushing Daisies, Hannibal, and to a slightly lesser extent, American Gods. But then with DIS it seemed like every decision he made was one I disagreed with. I don't really have a problem with idea of doing a TOS prequel set 10 years before it, but what we ended up with felt even more futuristic than the 24th Century shows. I know they couldn't go back to the 60s TOS aesthetic, but there had to be a way to modernize it, but still make it feel like what we saw in TOS.
The holographic communicators felt like a really weird thing to add to the show since we never really saw that kind of technology until DS9, and even then it only lasted one episode. I know we had the Rec Room in TAS, but this kind of two way communication in rooms outside of the holodeck felt way to advanced for the TOS era.
The Spore Drive is another weird choice, if they were able to come up with something that advanced in the TOS era, you'd think they'd be a lot farther along with their engine technology by the time we got to TNG. Even if that specific design was top secret, you'd still think their overall engine technology would farther along almost 100 years later.

 

[Christopher]

I've said it before, but I still think every weird or bad decision made in the early Discovery episodes goes back to Bryan Fuller, and the farther they've gotten from his contributions the better the shows has gotten.

I don't know about that. For one thing, his original plan was to do a seasonal anthology where only the first season was pre-TOS and subsequent seasons jumped forward in the timeline with new characters and situations. It was his highers-up that insisted on sticking with the original time frame. So we don't know what his real intent would've been. Also, we don't know whether the problems came from his ideas or from how other people tried to interpret his ideas after he was no longer around to do it.

The one that I really don't get is the Klingons, I don't understand why he was so insistent on making them so unrecognizable. It seems weird to me to take one of the franchises most iconic aliens, and then change almost everything about them, to point that they are practically unrecognizable.

It always amazes me when people forget that the exact same thing happened in 1979. Every single word you say here could've been said by fans about the TMP redesign. And you know what? The franchise survived. Fans got used to the change. They looked different, but they still acted like Klingons, and that was what mattered.

As for why the change was made, it's obvious to me. Makeup technology advances over time. As it does, prosthetic makeup designers are able to create more elaborate creatures, to take their creativity further than their predecessors were able to. If TOS's makeup artists had had the budget and technology of TMP, they would've made Klingons more alien to begin with. If TMP's or TNG's artists had had the prosthetic technology of DSC, they might've made their Klingons more alien to begin with.

Plus, of course, different makeup designers have different styles. This is an artistic creation, and artists are entitled to bring their own design sensibilities to their work. "Aliens" that are human actors with rubber stuck to their heads are not something that can be taken literally. They're constructs of the imagination, so there's nothing wrong with letting artists reinvent them in their own ways.

The holographic communicators felt like a really weird thing to add to the show since we never really saw that kind of technology until DS9, and even then it only lasted one episode. I know we had the Rec Room in TAS, but this kind of two way communication in rooms outside of the holodeck felt way to advanced for the TOS era.

The Making of Star Trek from 1968 actually said that the Enterprise had holographic theaters that could play immersive 3D movies or visual "letters" from home. So the concept was there during TOS. It's not that the tech wasn't supposed to exist in-universe; it was supposed to be there all along, but they just never figured out a way to depict it in an episode.

The Spore Drive is another weird choice, if they were able to come up with something that advanced in the TOS era, you'd think they'd be a lot farther along with their engine technology by the time we got to TNG. Even if that specific design was top secret, you'd still think their overall engine technology would farther along almost 100 years later.

You could say the same about numerous other technologies that were featured in one episode and abandoned, like the soliton wave or slipstream drive or quick-cloning or the like. It's an implausibility, but a common one throughout the franchise.

Incidentally, what does any of this have to do with the novelverse?

 

[Sci]

I've said it before, but I still think every weird or bad decision made in the early Discovery episodes goes back to Bryan Fuller, and the farther they've gotten from his contributions the better the shows has gotten.
The one that I really don't get is the Klingons, I don't understand why he was so insistent on making them so unrecognizable. It seems weird to me to take one of the franchises most iconic aliens, and then change almost everything about them, to point that they are practically unrecognizable. They did grow on me as the seasons went on, and I really like them now, but they still don't really feel like the Klingons we saw in TNG-Ent or in TOS. I've pretty much completely separated them from the other Klingons in my mind.

My first reaction to the DIS Klingons was, "I'm glad that the producers had the creative freedom to make new choices and break free from the paradigms that so constrained Berman-era Star Trek, but I don't happen to like these particular choices."

As I've gone back and re-evaluated the episodes -- I just finished re-watching all of S1 and I'm working on S2 before starting on S3 -- I find I like the DIS Klingons a lot more than I used to. In particular, I like how much scarier they are than Berman-era or Bennett-era Klingons. They feel alien in a way that those Klingons didn't; the semi-reptilian features really drive home the idea that these guys are fundamentally alien and dangerous. I also really appreciate that almost all Klingon scenes in S1 were done in Klingonese -- it's a more realistic depiction of how language barriers play a role in intercultural relations, it has the effect of making them seem even more alien, but it also just makes them feel more, well, Klingon. I especially like the use of Kahlessian liturgy: "Who do we seek? Kahless. Will he hide from us always? Never." There's a fundamental longing behind that prayer that feels very raw.

The DIS Klingons do look very different, yeah. I don't really need an explanation most of the time; I suppose if they ever bring back Michael Dorn as Worf in PIC, they'll need to decide if they use the Berman-era makeup design or update it to be more in line with the DIS design. If we really want some fanwank to reconcile it all, we could just assume that the DIS Klingons are either yet another mutation caused by the Augment Virus, or that they represent a previously-existing mutation in the Klingon species caused by some previous attempts at genetic manipulation that became common in some parts of the Empire but not others.

I don't really have a problem with idea of doing a TOS prequel set 10 years before it, but what we ended up with felt even more futuristic than the 24th Century shows.

I mean, that was always going to happen if you do a TOS-era show, because real life marches on. There is a point where we just have to squint and suspend disbelief.

I know they couldn't go back to the 60s TOS aesthetic, but there had to be a way to modernize it, but still make it feel like what we saw in TOS.

If your goal is to re-create the feeling of TOS, sure! And they did that with the Enterprise sets in DIS S2. But they wanted the Discovery to have a different vibe.

 

[JD]

The one thing I liked right from the start with the DIS Klingons was the use of Klingonese. It felt a lot more realistic than always getting the aliens speaking English even when there were no English speakers around.

 

[BillJ]

The problem is that none of those character is as iconic as Spock. No offense to any of them, but they simply don't have the same marquee value. "Spock's sister!" is a jaw-dropper. "Tuvok's foster daughter" just doesn't have the same "Wow!" effect.

It's like substituting Martian Manhunter for Batman. They just aren't equivalent in terms of fame and pop-culture cachet.

Essentially, setting it in the TOS timeframe was a business decision not really a creative one (which was smart, though not dramatically satisfying from my POV).

 

[JD]

I don't know about that. For one thing, his original plan was to do a seasonal anthology where only the first season was pre-TOS and subsequent seasons jumped forward in the timeline with new characters and situations. It was his highers-up that insisted on sticking with the original time frame. So we don't know what his real intent would've been. Also, we don't know whether the problems came from his ideas or from how other people tried to interpret his ideas after he was no longer around to do it.

OK, those are a couple of good points. Maybe I should say that I didn't like the way his ideas were presented onscreen.

It always amazes me when people forget that the exact same thing happened in 1979. Every single word you say here could've been said by fans about the TMP redesign. And you know what? The franchise survived. Fans got used to the change. They looked different, but they still acted like Klingons, and that was what mattered.

The big difference there is the time we had with that version of the Klingons. Before TMP there had only been 3 live action seasons and one animated season with, with only a few appearances. But with the TNG-Ent Klingons, we had 25 seasons, with dozens of appearances, and 3 movies. So having them suddenly change after they had only had a few minute changes, it is a lot more jarring.

As for why the change was made, it's obvious to me. Makeup technology advances over time. As it does, prosthetic makeup designers are able to create more elaborate creatures, to take their creativity further than their predecessors were able to. If TOS's makeup artists had had the budget and technology of TMP, they would've made Klingons more alien to begin with. If TMP's or TNG's artists had had the prosthetic technology of DSC, they might've made their Klingons more alien to begin with.
Plus, of course, different makeup designers have different styles. This is an artistic creation, and artists are entitled to bring their own design sensibilities to their work. "Aliens" that are human actors with rubber stuck to their heads are not something that can be taken literally. They're constructs of the imagination, so there's nothing wrong with letting artists reinvent them in their own ways.

Sure, but they could have done all of that with a whole new race rather than the Klingons.

The Making of Star Trek from 1968 actually said that the Enterprise had holographic theaters that could play immersive 3D movies or visual "letters" from home. So the concept was there during TOS. It's not that the tech wasn't supposed to exist in-universe; it was supposed to be there all along, but they just never figured out a way to depict it in an episode.

I did not know that.

You could say the same about numerous other technologies that were featured in one episode and abandoned, like the soliton wave or slipstream drive or quick-cloning or the like. It's an implausibility, but a common one throughout the franchise.

Yeah, I guess, but most of those were one and done, while the spore drive has been a huge part of this series. It's easier to just ignore something like that when it's relatively minor in the bigger picture of the whole franchise, but it's hard when it's a major focus of an entire series.

My first reaction to the DIS Klingons was, "I'm glad that the producers had the creative freedom to make new choices and break free from the paradigms that so constrained Berman-era Star Trek, but I don't happen to like these particular choices."

Not a bad way to look at it.

As I've gone back and re-evaluated the episodes -- I just finished re-watching all of S1 and I'm working on S2 before starting on S3 -- I find I like the DIS Klingons a lot more than I used to. In particular, I like how much scarier they are than Berman-era or Bennett-era Klingons. They feel alien in a way that those Klingons didn't; the semi-reptilian features really drive home the idea that these guys are fundamentally alien and dangerous. I also really appreciate that almost all Klingon scenes in S1 were done in Klingonese -- it's a more realistic depiction of how language barriers play a role in intercultural relations, it has the effect of making them seem even more alien, but it also just makes them feel more, well, Klingon. I especially like the use of Kahlessian liturgy: "Who do we seek? Kahless. Will he hide from us always? Never." There's a fundamental longing behind that prayer that feels very raw.

That's not to far off from how I felt once I got used to them.

The DIS Klingons do look very different, yeah. I don't really need an explanation most of the time; I suppose if they ever bring back Michael Dorn as Worf in PIC, they'll need to decide if they use the Berman-era makeup design or update it to be more in line with the DIS design. If we really want some fanwank to reconcile it all, we could just assume that the DIS Klingons are either yet another mutation caused by the Augment Virus, or that they represent a previously-existing mutation in the Klingon species caused by some previous attempts at genetic manipulation that became common in some parts of the Empire but not others.

Yeah, at this point I'm fine with just moving on and not really acknowledging the change. I'm very curious to see if we see Worf in Picard, or even Klingons in Season 3 of Discovery what they will look like.

I mean, that was always going to happen if you do a TOS-era show, because real life marches on. There is a point where we just have to squint and suspend disbelief.

If your goal is to re-create the feeling of TOS, sure! And they did that with the Enterprise sets in DIS S2. But they wanted the Discovery to have a different vibe.

I think there could have been way to give it it's own modern vibe, but still make it feel like it was before TOS.

 

[Christopher]

The big difference there is the time we had with that version of the Klingons. Before TMP there had only been 3 live action seasons and one animated season with, with only a few appearances. But with the TNG-Ent Klingons, we had 25 seasons, with dozens of appearances, and 3 movies. So having them suddenly change after they had only had a few minute changes, it is a lot more jarring.

But that wasn't one version of the Klingons. It was multiple versions. There was the Fred Phillips TMP version with a single central spine running down an otherwise smooth bald head. There was the Burman Studios TSFS version with individualized bony skull plates, itself a radical redesign of the Phillips version. There was the Michael Westmore TV version that combined the bony plates of the Burman version with the ridged noses of the Phillips, but differed from Burman in giving females full ridges instead of subtle ones like Valkris had. There was the Richard Snell version in ST IV-VI that went for rounder foreheads and subtler ridge designs, and went back to giving females almost vestigial ridges. And then, of course, there's the Neville Page redesign from Into Darkness, which was almost as radical as Page's second Klingon design for Discovery.

There has always been a lot of artistic variation in how different designers depict the idea of "Klingon," just as there's variation in how different comic book artists have drawn Superman or the Thing over the decades. But we accept the variations as individual license and focus on the commonalities.

Sure, but they could have done all of that with a whole new race rather than the Klingons.

No, they couldn't, because they were written to be Klingons. The story needed them to be Klingons. The story is what matters. Visuals are not the story. They're just the interpretation of the story. You're mistaking the superficial trappings for the substance of the idea.

Besides, part of creativity is letting different creators play with the same idea in different ways. That is a good thing, an important part of how creativity works. Just as every actor wants to create their own interpretation of Hamlet, say, or every comic book artist wants to try their hand at their own version of Spider-Man, I'm sure many prosthetic makeup artists would welcome the chance to reinvent "Klingon" yet again, to put their own stamp on the concept along with their predecessors.

Yeah, I guess, but most of those were one and done, while the spore drive has been a huge part of this series. It's easier to just ignore something like that when it's relatively minor in the bigger picture of the whole franchise, but it's hard when it's a major focus of an entire series.

Haven't we had this same argument a dozen times by now? Again, what does this have to do with the "Discovery and the Novelverse" thread? It's just rehashing old complaints that have been voiced over and over again ad nauseam.

 

[Sci]

Yeah, at this point I'm fine with just moving on and not really acknowledging the change. I'm very curious to see if we see Worf in Picard, or even Klingons in Season 3 of Discovery what they will look like.

I'm honestly not sure what they'd do with Worf, because he's an iconic character with a specific look. They faced a similar set of choices with Data, because there are a lot of different ways to portray an android today that they didn't have in 1987, but they went with a variation on the classic TNG look, so I suspect they'd do the same with Worf. But who knows?

For DIS S3, I'm sure that if there are Klingon characters they'll use the basic DIS design.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There was a still shot of Worf in an early episode of PIC and he looked exactly like he did on TNG. So I'd like to think that if Worf turned up for real, he'd look like, well, himself. (Meaning, he wouldn't be DSC-ized or anything like that.)

 

[Tim Thomason]

For DIS S3, I'm sure that if there are Klingon characters they'll use the basic DIS design.

Given that they went out of their way to de-monsterize the Klingons in Season 2 (returning hair, shrinking heads to normal proportions, going easy on the claws), I imagine they'll continue that trend, and the Season 3 Klingons, if we ever see them, will look mostly traditional TNG-style, or maybe they'll mix in traditional with Disco-brand and maybe some other variations.

 

[Christopher]

Given that they went out of their way to de-monsterize the Klingons in Season 2 (returning hair, shrinking heads to normal proportions, going easy on the claws), I imagine they'll continue that trend, and the Season 3 Klingons, if we ever see them, will look mostly traditional TNG-style, or maybe they'll mix in traditional with Disco-brand and maybe some other variations.

Or maybe they'll be satisfied with the season 2 version and stick with that. I doubt they'd be "TNG-style," because Michael Westmore is not the makeup designer anymore. They'd be some other artist's interpretation of the principle. You wouldn't expect John Byrne to draw Captain America the same way Jack Kirby did. And we've already seen that DSC Andorians and Tellarites look substantially different from the Westmore designs of those species in ENT. It's weird how people forget that Klingons aren't the only species that's gotten redesigned by every new makeup supervisor.

 

[Tuskin38]

I like what STO did with Gowron's 23rd century ancestor, they did a hybrid of TNG/DSC makeup

Or maybe they'll be satisfied with the season 2 version and stick with that. I doubt they'd be "TNG-style," because Michael Westmore is not the makeup designer anymore. They'd be some other artist's interpretation of the principle. You wouldn't expect John Byrne to draw Captain America the same way Jack Kirby did. And we've already seen that DSC Andorians and Tellarites look substantially different from the Westmore designs of those species in ENT. It's weird how people forget that Klingons aren't the only species that's gotten redesigned by every new makeup supervisor.

And on the other hand, we do have other returning species that don't seem to be changed at all from how they appeared in the Westmore era. The Trill and Bajorans haven't changed at all, then again they only have small differences from humans.

Spoiler

There is what appears to be a Coridanite from ENT (the unmasked ones) in the 'Star Trek Day' DSC Season 3 trailer, with the makeup unchanged from how it appeared in ENT. The Lurians have slightly bigger ears and smoother facial features, but are still basically identical to morn

I wonder how they decide which ones to change and which ones to not.

 

[Damian]

Yeah, I guess, but most of those were one and done, while the spore drive has been a huge part of this series. It's easier to just ignore something like that when it's relatively minor in the bigger picture of the whole franchise, but it's hard when it's a major focus of an entire series

That was always my issue with the spore drive. It's a major story device for the entire series. It's not something they used in one episode and forgot about. And I have a really hard time believing Starfleet would completely abandon it and never go back to it. Yes, it has serious, dangerous side effects. But a technology that can instantaneously transfer you to anywhere in the galaxy (or universe perhaps) is not something I think they would just say forget about it. They might stop using it until they found a way to use it safely.

Now, they did make an attempt at the end of season 2 to answer that by classifying everything. I found that a bit clunky, but it's probably the only way to bury it in story. After all, I find it hard to believe that the Klingon or Romulan Empires would be concerned about the safety issues. If they got their hands on it I have no doubt they'd use it for their own ends, the multi-verse be damned.

But with the TNG-Ent Klingons, we had 25 seasons, with dozens of appearances, and 3 movies. So having them suddenly change after they had only had a few minute changes, it is a lot more jarring.

But that wasn't one version of the Klingons. It was multiple versions.

With TMP through Enterprise you could tell they were in the same 'family' of alien at least though. The TMP Klingons are a bit more primitive design of the concept, but I found from TSFS through Enterprise the design was very similar with only minor differences (much the same way humans look different from one another). I don't see a significant difference. The Giger-Klingon look is dramatically different, to the point if the screen didn't say "in Klingon" I probably wouldn't have known they were Klingons.

Now, in season 2, I did notice a few Klingons with hair. With hair the Giger Klingons look a bit more familiar. I kind of wished they threw in a human appearing Klingon in the background though to tie it to the Augment virus and how they appeared in the original series. It would have been a nice nod to the original series.

There was a still shot of Worf in an early episode of PIC and he looked exactly like he did on TNG. So I'd like to think that if Worf turned up for real, he'd look like, well, himself. (Meaning, he wouldn't be DSC-ized or anything like that.)

Yeah, that would be my guess as well. Worf is a main character, and a recognizable one. I think in that case they'd probably stick pretty close to the original design. They might touch the make-up a bit, but for the most part I imagine he'd appear mostly as he did the last time we saw him in Nemesis (with a bit more gray of course).

Not to mention Bryan Fuller was the one that championed the nu-Klingon look. I don't think the current showrunners are as committed to that design and might be more flexible to using older Klingon designs in some cases.

It's weird how people forget that Klingons aren't the only species that's gotten redesigned by every new makeup supervisor

Probably because Klingons are seen way more than Andorians or Tellarites were, though they got a bump in Enterprise. And the design of Andorians and Tellarites aren't as different as the Klingons were. In some ways it almost seemed like they took the basic Enterprise design and added to it (a couple facial flourishes/contours for Andorians and tusks for Tellarites (and the ones we saw in Discovery had less hair, but there were so few Tellarites seen that it could be like balding in humans).

 

[Tuskin38]

There was a still shot of Worf in an early episode of PIC and he looked exactly like he did on TNG. So I'd like to think that if Worf turned up for real, he'd look like, well, himself. (Meaning, he wouldn't be DSC-ized or anything like that.)

I believe Kurtzman said as much as well. If Worf ever appeared he would be recognizable.

We've already seen that Picard isn't using the exact same makeup as DSC, all their Andorians had human looking faces, no prosthetics. There was a picture of a DSC Andorian reference photo in a BTS video though, so it might have been considered at one point. Maybe Chabon just didn't like the DSC Andorian makeup.

There was a DSC style Tellarite in one episode however.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Or maybe they'll be satisfied with the season 2 version and stick with that. I doubt they'd be "TNG-style," because Michael Westmore is not the makeup designer anymore. They'd be some other artist's interpretation of the principle. You wouldn't expect John Byrne to draw Captain America the same way Jack Kirby did. And we've already seen that DSC Andorians and Tellarites look substantially different from the Westmore designs of those species in ENT. It's weird how people forget that Klingons aren't the only species that's gotten redesigned by every new makeup supervisor.

Well, obviously it's not going to be exactly as Westmore did it, but perhaps evocative of his style. They still use Discovery Andorians and Discovery Orions, so they haven't abandoned their makeup designs yet, so you might be right. The fact that they were so quick to redesign the Klingons already, makes me think they'll push for it again.

It's conceivable, of course, that Klingons will only be mentioned this season, because frankly, we might need a break from their drama.

 

[Tuskin38]

and Discovery Orions

People with green makeup all over their body. So an Orion. What makes the DSC ones different?

 

[Extrocomp]

People with green makeup all over their body. So an Orion. What makes the DSC ones different?

I think the DSC Orions are a paler shade of green than the ENT Orions.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Why did the show's writers even think it made sense to say that no one in the Federation had seen a Klingon face-to-face in a century despite acknowledging the Battle of Donatu V?

I do not care that it is technically plausible; it is a ridiculous premise.

Last time we saw them, a flu pandemic was unleashed which transformed them into humans.
Now who actually thinks Klingons would be any more capable at stopping a pandemic than 21st century humans?

Donatu V could have been one rogue Klingon in his ship for all any of us know, and indamous because nobody had seen a Klingon for 70+ years at that point.

 

[Christopher]

And on the other hand, we do have other returning species that don't seem to be changed at all from how they appeared in the Westmore era. The Trill and Bajorans haven't changed at all, then again they only have small differences from humans.

Those were pretty simple makeups to begin with. They probably don't fire a prosthetic designer's imagination as much as something more alien like a Klingon or Andorian. Too little to work with.

Spoiler

There is what appears to be a Coridanite from ENT (the unmasked ones) in the 'Star Trek Day' DSC Season 3 trailer, with the makeup unchanged from how it appeared in ENT. The Lurians have slightly bigger ears and smoother facial features, but are still basically identical to morn

I wonder how they decide which ones to change and which ones to not.

The ones that are still the same are fairly obscure. It's the iconic ones that get changed. Again, those probably fire the artists' imaginations more. A lot of makeup artists and concept designers have probably spent time musing, "Gee, if I got hired for Star Trek, how would I want the Andorians/Tellarites to look?" But I doubt very many have mused over how they'd want the Coridanites to look.

That was always my issue with the spore drive. It's a major story device for the entire series. It's not something they used in one episode and forgot about. And I have a really hard time believing Starfleet would completely abandon it and never go back to it.

I have a hard time believing that about plenty of other technologies, as I've said. I have a hard time believing they don't use transporters as weapons (just turn off the rematerialization part and it's a disintegrator ray that can shoot through walls without line of sight, basically the Tantalus Device) or as a replacement for surgery. I have a hard time believing they didn't keep the Kelvan drive modifications and make their ships a hundred times faster. I have a hard time believing they haven't combined the quick-cloning from "A Man Alone" with the mind-transfer tech from "The Passenger" to make everyone immortal. Things that are hard to believe about Trek tech are hardly exclusive to the newest incarnation.

Fans always do this, with every new incarnation. They complain about the implausibilities or inconsistencies in the new thing that are exactly as implausible or inconsistent as countless other things going back to the original series, and they don't realize that the ONLY difference is that we've had more time to get used to the older ones and either rationalize them or learn to ignore them. Trek has always been a conceptual mess with a lot of absurd ideas. It's always been a mix of good, bad, and mediocre episodes, of things that work and things that fail. But we gloss over the less satisfying parts in our memories, something we haven't had time to do with the new stuff. So it creates the illusion that the old stuff was better.

People with green makeup all over their body. So an Orion. What makes the DSC ones different?

I think the main difference is that the men have hair and don't have huge piercings all over their scalps. Though that's a difference in culture rather than anatomy.

Last time we saw them, a flu pandemic was unleashed which transformed them into humans.

Some of them. "Divergence" clearly stated that the number of transformed Klingons was only in the millions, the population of a handful of colonies. Most Klingons remained unchanged.