Poll Disco v Lost in Space v Orville FIGHT
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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"Dark and Edgy" became a thing after 9/11. Before that, the 90s, was basically all sunshine and consumerism, suddenly the realisation swept in that shit can get dark in the real world. Before that, the criticism was about people not being contend with their happy life - both "Fight Club" and "American Beauty" deal with how horrible 9-to-5 jobs and annoying kids can be. Suddenly thousands of young man were sent out to die in useless wars, some of which were fought under false pretenses, and people suddenly lived with the fear of being attacked at home. It was a drastic change in attitude (that is, in America, where the pop-culture was defined).
The new "dark and edgy" media was the way people dealt with that - there was social commentary and observations made in stuff like the rebooted BSG, or Christopher Nolans Batman trology. Other media - like the rise of Zach Snyder with "300" worked as revenge fantasies, or the (great) "24" as a power fantasy to deal with that - aknowledgements bad stuff happens, but you can do something against it.
Everybody who does it now though does it only because of Hollywood executives saw it was popular 10 years ago, thus it must be popular now as well. Not seeing that the media has changed again - the Marvel movies have become more "fun" and colorful, and people actually want positive futures to yearn for again, and don't want to see depressing shit all of the time. Not to erase bad stuff happens - but to be able to contrast it with "good" futures again, and to make a point we are able to overcome the conflicts of our time.
I don't think times have gotten better. Others may disagree but I think they've become worse than ever. I understand that people want to look to a better tomorrow. So do I. But the "brighter", "fun" stuff is pure escapism. I don't think the problems of before went away, they've only multiplied. The question is: do people want entertainment to reflect what's going on or do they think it should escape from it?
Unless there's something in The Expanse (which I've never seen), I don't think any sci-fi series has seriously tackled The Trump Era. On the comedy end we have shows like Roseanne, which is Pro-Trump, but I don't see anything in sci-fi that's seriously grabbed the era we're in by the horns. Definitely not Discovery, The Orville, or Lost In Space. DSC, I maintain, says something about two sides intent on disagreeing with each other no matter what in the pilot, but that doesn't really have anything to do with Trump.
Which goes back to my original question. Do people want a show that directly addresses the issues of Our Time or do they prefer to watch something that escapes from it? And how will avoiding the tough issues look to people in the future? Will they look back to shows that say something about the time at the time more fondly or not? Or will the writing just seem as dated as Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country? Much as I like that film.
Unless there's something in The Expanse (which I've never seen), I don't think any sci-fi series has seriously tackled The Trump Era. On the comedy end we have shows like Roseanne, which is Pro-Trump, but I don't see anything in sci-fi that's seriously grabbed the era we're in by the horns. Definitely not Discovery, The Orville, or Lost In Space. DSC, I maintain, says something about two sides intent on disagreeing with each other no matter what in the pilot, but that doesn't really have anything to do with Trump.
Which goes back to my original question. Do people want a show that directly addresses the issues of Our Time or do they prefer to watch something that escapes from it? And how will avoiding the tough issues look to people in the future? Will they look back to shows that say something about the time at the time more fondly or not? Or will the writing just seem as dated as Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country? Much as I like that film.
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Depends on my mood. But, for me, Discovery does neither convincingly. It feels like it is trying to be too many things to too many people.
I prefer Star Trek to be optimistic escapism. I deal with enough melodramatic angst in my day to day life. Seeing it rub off on a franchise I love just saddens me.
Same here. Though if they want to be dark and edgy, then be dark and edgy. Doing both is a line that is very tough to straddle, and I think beyond the capabilities of the writers they have.
The 90's was a time of sunshine and consumerism? Maybe if you lived in a bubble, believed the propaganda machine and only watched tv or movies. The 90's saw the start of the Gulf War, and terrorist attacks in other countries like the sarin subway attack in Tokyo. There was genocide in Bosnia and Rwanda. In the States the World Trade Centre was bombed, the first real act of domestic terrorism in a long time and it shook the country right down to it's roots. We also had India and Pakistan testing nuclear weapons. Those are just a few.
Imo in times of uncertainty people want happy on their TVs and movies to show things can work out. Maybe that's why Marvel movies are so poplular now. We simply want to believe something wonderful exists at the end.
Imo in times of uncertainty people want happy on their TVs and movies to show things can work out. Maybe that's why Marvel movies are so poplular now. We simply want to believe something wonderful exists at the end.
I did.
On the other hand, I hated junior high and high school, disagreed with my parents a lot, loved being an Outsider, and listened to a lot of Heavy Metal and Grunge. So there we are.
I did.
On the other hand, I hated junior high and high school, disagreed with my parents a lot, loved being an Outsider, and listened to a lot of Heavy Metal and Grunge. So there we are.
Lol. I stand corrected. I guess I'm just older and lived it. I personally thought the 70's was great.
Lots of bad shit in the 70's as well. Watergate, Vietnam, Gas Shortages, Iranian Hostage Crisis...
I think we just have periods of time when we are growing up or are just becoming adults that we look upon fondly.
Lots of bad shit in the 70's as well. Watergate, Vietnam, Gas Shortages, Iranian Hostage Crisis...
I think we just have periods of time when we are growing up or are just becoming adults that we look upon fondly.
I remember the war the most. Watergate was political drama. Yuck stuff to a teenager. Gas shortages my parents stressed over. I walked to school. Lol The cold war. That's was the scary thing back then. People were building bomb shelters.
Agree. I was a young boy in the '70s, so for me the '70s was truly a great time to be a kid. From the television series[ TOS reruns, TAS, Space:1999, UFO, Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers et.al. ], Saturday morning television series and the films[Star Wars, Star Trek:The Motion Picture et.al.] it was awesome. STARLOG Magazine was my internet.Lots of bad shit in the 70's as well. Watergate, Vietnam, Gas Shortages, Iranian Hostage Crisis...
I think we just have periods of time when we are growing up or are just becoming adults that we look upon fondly.
I was addicted to UFO and Space:1999. I didn't miss an episode.
The 60's had Lost in Space and Star Trek. Lost was black and white at first. I remember the first color episode. Shocking!
Finished Lost in Space. You know, not the best sci-fi ever, not even best sci-fi currently on TV (hi Westworld and The Expanse), but after the cliffhanger ending (sorry not a spoiler, ALL tv shows seasons end in cliffhanger, if you are not expecting one these days you are not watching enough TV) I actually want to see season 2 as soon as possible. I cannot say the same thing after seeing the STD "cliffhanger". I gave STD Season 1 a solid 4 out of 10, Lost in Space would get a solid 7/10. It's not the best ever, but definitely better than STD.
I want to go back to something. It occurred to me just now, otherwise I would've posted it earlier. Just a side-thought that came out of this. Sorry about the tangent!
With DS9 and the '90s, the production values and writing style was of the time but, when they moved to a war setting, we were talking online back then about how DS9 was like WWII in Space. It wasn't so much talking about its own time so much as doing its own thing.
But on the other hand...
The violence on the station, the attack at the beginning of "Homefront", and the rise of the Maquis ("Organized terrorist activities!" as Gul Evek would say), seem to me to be the series addressing the types of headline issues of the time.
I know there's more to it but, when the series premiered, I sort-of saw the station is being like the projects: a city or a section of the city that people wanted to rebuild. I didn't live in the projects but I did live near them.
Tackling issues of the day was something Michael Piller, in particular, wanted to do. So maybe DS9, like the other series, was of its time but just in a different way than TNG or VOY.
With DS9 and the '90s, the production values and writing style was of the time but, when they moved to a war setting, we were talking online back then about how DS9 was like WWII in Space. It wasn't so much talking about its own time so much as doing its own thing.
But on the other hand...
The violence on the station, the attack at the beginning of "Homefront", and the rise of the Maquis ("Organized terrorist activities!" as Gul Evek would say), seem to me to be the series addressing the types of headline issues of the time.
I know there's more to it but, when the series premiered, I sort-of saw the station is being like the projects: a city or a section of the city that people wanted to rebuild. I didn't live in the projects but I did live near them.
Tackling issues of the day was something Michael Piller, in particular, wanted to do. So maybe DS9, like the other series, was of its time but just in a different way than TNG or VOY.
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You are holding them to too high a standard. The last episode
where they converted bio-alien-poop to fuel to finally lift off, has one huge flaw. If they had bio-converters in the first place, they literally don't need shit to fly. Just take any bio-matter and use that. Like Mr. Fusion in Back to the Future II, just grab some garbage, stuff it in there and off you go.
X-Files style conspiracy implied by the "asteroid impact"
You could say B5 started dark and edgy in Sci-Fi (around 1994) but it was not widely spread on TV until a bit later. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (circa 1997) started as a somewhat lighthearted comedy first few seasons, but then got real dark real fast by the end of it's run. Angel was in full "dark and edgy" mode from first episode. Then 9/11 happened, then 24 happened and all TV switched to grimdark and barely looked back.
Nothing's darker than Dark Willow. When I get furious, really furious, that's how I am... in my head, at least. I self-censor for real life and online.
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