Director of Fleet Operations

[CuttingEdge100]

What does the Director of Fleet-Operations do exactly? I'm curious to know, as Admiral Kirk held this position in Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

I haven't been able to get an answer on the Star Trek Movies forum, so I figure this forum would be more appropriate.


CuttingEdge100

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

In the US Navy the Chief of Naval Operations is basically the Commander of the US Navy. Since Kirk was likely just a Rear-Admiral at the time and was junior to Admiral Nogura it seems likely that Star Fleet is structured somewhat differently. I would think that the Chief of Ops would be in charge of directing what ships are assigned where and what missions are assigned. But I don't think there is anything in the movie that clearly states what the job entailed.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

What does the Director of Fleet-Operations do exactly?

The Director of Fleet Ops sends every ship in the sector away on missions except for the Enterprise.

 

[nx1701g]

Memory Alpha suggests that they work to assign people to Starships. Maybe they're the human resources people of the Starfleet?

We do know - whatever they do - it is a position of great power in Starfleet. In addition to Kirk, Admiral Leyton from DS9 was Chief of Starfleet Operations and he had enough control to take over the planet.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Try and coax primadonnas out of their trailer before they lose the light?

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Hanukkah Jitty

The Director of Fleet Ops sends every ship in the sector away on missions except for the Enterprise.

Out of curiousity (Other than the comment about the USS Enterprise) is there any position in the US Navy like that?


nx1701g,

We do know - whatever they do - it is a position of great power in Starfleet. In addition to Kirk, Admiral Leyton from DS9 was Chief of Starfleet Operations and he had enough control to take over the planet.

I guess I can't disagree with that.


CuttingEdge100

 

[Timo]

Considering that Kirk readily changed his rank braid when taking personal command of the Enterprise, we could argue that he had swapped shirts before making his initial Rear Admiral appearance already. He might have held higher rank during his desk job as Chief of SF Ops.

That is how it might work in the real world, after all. Kirk would first be promoted to the lowest flag rank and put on a "waiting list". The position of Chief of Ops then opened, and called for a Vice Admiral (like Leyton was) - so Kirk was given this immediate promotion, quite regardless of how many intervening ranks it skipped. After Kirk stepped down from the position, he also lost the associated rank and reverted to his normal Rear Admiral.

In the real world, these temporary promotions usually end up being "pseudo-permanent", because they tend to be major achievements and honors granted to Admirals near the end of their active careers. Typically, they are expected to resign as their term ends and the "demotion" approaches. But Starfleet officers enjoy long careers: (human) retirement age in TAS was 75, but supposedly was revised up immediately thereafter - and in TNG, humans in their eighties were active line officers.

For an alternate explanation, Kirk might have been a Chief of Ops for a particular theater of operations - roughly comparable to CinCLant or CinCPac. Thus not at the very top of the pyramid, even though an important hands-on commander.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[J.T.B.]

What does the Director of Fleet-Operations do exactly? I'm curious to know, as Admiral Kirk held this position in Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

Never specified, but it appears to be a high-level staff job, probably directly under the "Starfleet Chief of Staff" or "Commander, Starfleet." Starfleet in this period is apparently run by a General Staff, in which Chief of SF Ops would most likely be a top member. In the TMP novel (where Nogura's title is "Commanding Admiral") it says his responsibilities include "fleet deployment."

In the Franz Joseph Technical Manual, Chief of Operations appears to be the number three officer in Starfleet Command, after the Chief of Staff and Deputy Chief of Staff. Chief of Ops is in charge of all Starfleet's operating forces and bases. This does seem a little high up for Kirk's relatively junior flag status.

In military usage "operations" generally means gathering and interpreting information needed to evaluate the current situation, and deploying forces as appropriate. In the US armed forces, the operations director (J3) for the joint staff is a three-star job, while the unified combatant commanders generally have a two-star officer in a similar post.

The US Navy uses "Operations" in the title of its top officer, even though his job would probably better be described as "Chief of Naval Staff." This is because the position descended from the "Aid for Operations to the Secretary of the Navy," 1909-1915, in the days when the secretary took a more direct role in directing and deploying the fleets. In WW2, the USN's top "operations" officer was the Assistant Chief of Staff (Operations), United States Fleet, a two-star officer in Washington.

Considering that Kirk readily changed his rank braid when taking personal command of the Enterprise, we could argue that he had swapped shirts before making his initial Rear Admiral appearance already. He might have held higher rank during his desk job as Chief of SF Ops.

Not likely. There is no reason to believe that Kirk had changed jobs before his big showdown with Nogura. We don't know exactly how much time had elapsed after Starfleet Command received the communications concerning V'ger, but things certainly seem rushed. It stretches credulity that, in the press of events, Kirk had resigned his post without knowing what Nogura's decision would be, then stopped off at a uniform shop to have his insignia altered before meeting with his boss.

That is how it might work in the real world, after all. Kirk would first be promoted to the lowest flag rank and put on a "waiting list". The position of Chief of Ops then opened, and called for a Vice Admiral (like Leyton was) - so Kirk was given this immediate promotion, quite regardless of how many intervening ranks it skipped. After Kirk stepped down from the position, he also lost the associated rank and reverted to his normal Rear Admiral.

In the real world, these temporary promotions usually end up being "pseudo-permanent", because they tend to be major achievements and honors granted to Admirals near the end of their active careers. Typically, they are expected to resign as their term ends and the "demotion" approaches.

Not really how it works in the US armed forces since WW2. Before that, there was an ingrained congressional bias against a large military "ruling class" with lots of top-level officers, so two-star rear admiral/major general was the highest permanent rank. Now officers generally fill a series of three-star jobs before being appointed to a four-star job or retiring. Reverting to two-star rank is very rare and is considered a disciplinary action, indicating the officer has screwed up or embarrassed his/her superiors in some way. Skipping a general/flag grade (from one to three or from two to four stars) has happened, but is also extremely rare.

--Justin

 

[CuttingEdge100]

J.T.B,

So Kirk would be the number 3 guy in Starfleet?

Out of curiousity, considering that in Star Fleet, the Commander Star-Fleet / C-in-C Starfleet is a five-star rank (Unlike the CNO or CJCS who have four-stars), would Kirk be a 3-star (as is) or a 4-star?


CuttingEdge100

 

[Data Holmes]

I've been playing around with the structure of starfleet's top brass for a while now... I've got a layout that seems to work with what is presented on screen.

I based alot of this on a sort of mix of Napoleonic wars era and WWII era naval culture and structure, and focus for the time of the movies...


Here is a chunk of my notes on this:

Now, if we took the royal navy example and expand it to work with starfleet's size there is one other element to take into account: The way Federation space is divided up. Now, from the licensed and fan works of the time, they all tend point to a spherical map. With a centered "core" sphere called quadrant 0, with the outer sphere divided up into four quadrants wrapped around the core, called quads 1 - 4. Each of these is divided up into a northern and southern sub-quadrant, with each sub-quadrant being divided up into sectors.

Now, if we follow the royal navy system for line officer commands, one could theorize that each quadrant is under the command of a fleet (5 star) admiral. These admirals would make up "The admiralty" board, with the sector 0 fleet admiral being the most senior and head of starfleet as a whole as well as his quadrant, the "6 star". Under each fleet admiral would be an admiral (4 star) in command of each "sub-quadrant" fleet, which would be the "numbered" fleets, ie 7th fleet, 10th fleet, ect. Flag officers, and Officers of flag rank, serving under the admirals would vary in numbers depend on how many were needed. (Note: A Flag Officer would be anyone commodore and above who is in command of a "fleet element" of three or more ships, where as an Officer of flag rank would be a commodore or above who is serving in a staff/support position, and as such does not command a fleet element.)

Ok, so we have the max number of five star admirals, with the senior as head of the service and of the "admiralty board" as the "six star" admiral. A Positional rank, not an actual one. As such it doesn't carry any rank insignia different from that of a regular fleet admiral, so the pin is the same. The only difference being the added gold stripe on the jacket flap and pants to designate his "senior status" while maintaining the same rank insignia.

Also, aside from the CinC title, one could also say that the formal titles of the senior five star is "Admiral of the Starfleet" while the formal titles of the other five star's would be "Fleet Admiral"


I also have an answer for "colonel west". He, as head of the starfleet marines, may have actually held the title of "Colonel-Commandant" which was the original title of the head of the USMC and a rank title used in the royal marines up until 1913, but continued on as as an honorary or ceremonial title relating to the head of a military corps. As such, he could have held the rank of Vice Admiral/Major general, but as the head of the marines he was the Colonel-Commandant and was referred to by the senior admiralty as "Colonel West". This would make since further if the starfleet marines of the time used naval rankings, as all onscreen evidence shows us, then there would be no colones in starfleet except for west.

Flag officers

1 - Admiral of the Starfleet
4 - Fleet Admiral
9 - Admirals
18 - Vice Admirals
54 - Rear admirals & Commodores

General Staff Flag Officers

Commander Starfleet - Vice admiral to Fleet Admiral
Operational Commanders - Rear Admiral to Admiral
Chief of star fleet Operations
Commander, Galaxy Exploration command
Commander, TACFleet
Commander, Colonial Operations
Commander, Merchent Service
Commandaunt Starfleet marines
Commandaunt starfleet Border Service
Chief of the General Staff - Vice Admiral to fleet admiral
Department Chiefs - Commodore to Admiral
Logistics
Communications
Intelligence
Tactical
Personell
Training
Medical
Shore Establishment

 

[J.T.B.]

J.T.B,

So Kirk would be the number 3 guy in Starfleet?

No way to know for sure, but... Number three guy in seniority? Almost certainly not, with less than five years in flag rank. Number three job at Starfleet Command? Maybe, but I still think he's probably too junior. I think of Chief of Starfleet Operations as more of a high staff job, as opposed to a "command" position, with Kirk managing the operations section of the staff and serving as a top adviser to the top dog, but not actually in control of any forces.

Out of curiousity, considering that in Star Fleet, the Commander Star-Fleet / C-in-C Starfleet is a five-star rank (Unlike the CNO or CJCS who have four-stars), would Kirk be a 3-star (as is) or a 4-star?

It's pretty certain that he was a two-star in TMP (though apparently used one star for rank insignia in that period). How the different grades are distributed is anybody's guess. When the US introduced five-star ranks, it did move a few top-level people up a grade, but most positions were unaffected.

--Justin

 

[CuttingEdge100]

J.T.B/Justin,

I think seniority is only important when you have two people at the same rank -- the most senior is the ranking officer. It's possible to have a Captain who has served a few more months or years than a Rear Admiral -- the Rear Admiral still is the one in charge...

It's unlikely that Kirk would be promoted that high and that fast, but theoretically once you get one star there is no minimum time between rank from one star to four (or in Star Trek, five) -- though at least in the US, the President would have to order such a promotion.

There have also been historic cases where Rear Admirals were briefly bumped up to a 4-star rank for a temporary assignment, this to my knowledge did not require the President's say so, (although this rarely happens nowadays) though I could be wrong about that part...

Regardless, the rank that Kirk had in Star Trek: TMP was consistent with that of a Rear Admiral (though interestingly speaking, while not entirely canon, Gene Roddenberry himself wrote in the TMP novel that Kirk had reached the rank of Admiral)


CuttingEdge100

 

[J.T.B.]

I think seniority is only important when you have two people at the same rank -- the most senior is the ranking officer. It's possible to have a Captain who has served a few more months or years than a Rear Admiral -- the Rear Admiral still is the one in charge...

True, but everyone has a place in rank and seniority. The senior admiral (or fleet admiral) would be number one, and so on down through the admirals, vice admirals &c. What I meant was I doubted that Kirk would be the number three in rank and seniority in all of Starfleet.

There have also been historic cases where Rear Admirals were briefly bumped up to a 4-star rank for a temporary assignment, this to my knowledge did not require the President's say so, (although this rarely happens nowadays) though I could be wrong about that part...

I don't know of any instances where that has happened, but the president would have to order it. The president has to approve all flag/general officer promotions, even temporary, and looks very closely at three- and four-star appointments.

Regardless, the rank that Kirk had in Star Trek: TMP was consistent with that of a Rear Admiral (though interestingly speaking, while not entirely canon, Gene Roddenberry himself wrote in the TMP novel that Kirk had reached the rank of Admiral)

He did, though I'm not sure if he meant the rank of admiral or used the word generically to mean flag rank. Moving from captain to full admiral in less than five years in wartime is not unheard of, in peacetime I would think it pretty unlikely.

--Justin