And here I was forgetting to add Lethal Weapon to my Christmas viewing list. Not a mistake I'll repeat next year!
Die Hard: Best Christmas Movie or Greatest Christmas Movie?
- Thread starter Trekker4747
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And here I was forgetting to add Lethal Weapon to my Christmas viewing list. Not a mistake I'll repeat next year!
I watch both every year. Did so last night, for that matter.
Both are excellent films. Really it's mostly a wash in terms of quality. Die Hard is probably the better film if only judging by RT score and Oscars (Die Hard had four noms, Lethal Weapon just had one.)
For me though, it comes down to director. I love both. McTiernan directed my favorite movie of all time (as seen in the quotes thread), but I think Donner is better.
Lethal Weapon is clearly the better movie series. More consistency in style, cast and quality. I especially love how the whole family, and Murtaugh's house, grow within the series.
The Die Hard series is a mess in these regards.
The Die Hard series is a mess in these regards.
I do love Lethal Weapon and Long Kiss Goodnight also... But Die Hard is just so well constructed...
Long Kiss Goodnight and Lethal Weapon are good movies but it'd be hard for me to take them in as a "tongue in cheek" Christmas movie like Die Hard. Die Hard is just pure action-movie, fun with over-the-tip action and characters. Lethal Weapon and even Long Kiss Goodnight both shift much into drama area and LW even has that torture-y scene in it after get Murtough's daughter in the desert.
I dunno, if people want to see them as "Christmas movies" that's fine, but for me they don't quite qualify as a modern-day take on a Christmas movie as Die Hard does. Die Hard just has a certain "magic" to it that makes things work and, well Christmas is a strong theme in it. :Shrug:
To each their own. For me Die Hard will always be a must-watch on Christmas. LW? Not so much.
I dunno, if people want to see them as "Christmas movies" that's fine, but for me they don't quite qualify as a modern-day take on a Christmas movie as Die Hard does. Die Hard just has a certain "magic" to it that makes things work and, well Christmas is a strong theme in it. :Shrug:
To each their own. For me Die Hard will always be a must-watch on Christmas. LW? Not so much.
Die Hard every year, along with A Christmas Carol, The Bishop's Wife, Gremlins...
It's a Wonderful Life is the only classic that's a must for me. I don't think any of the Christmas Carol/Scrooge films compare to the book. Which isn't fair, I know, because the Alastair Sim one is actually a pretty good film.
As for modern movies, I have to throw Home Alone in there as a yearly must watch. Mock and ridicule all you want, but at the end of the day it's still a Chris Columbus film written by John Hughes and scored by John Williams.
As for modern movies, I have to throw Home Alone in there as a yearly must watch. Mock and ridicule all you want, but at the end of the day it's still a Chris Columbus film written by John Hughes and scored by John Williams.
Lethal Weapon was good but I think bested by its sequel. I could go either way on LW3 and the less said about LW4 the better.
Die Hard is a pure, unflawed, action-movie classic. It RE-DEFINED action movies as action movies ever since have been called "Die Hard on a..." I watched Die Hard 2 the other night it's "good" but I think tried too hard to copy the formula of the first movie. It's Christmas Eve again, it's a half-baked terrorist plot that's really something else again, McClane is butting heads with those in charge again since he's out of his jurisdiction, wife is in peril, Dick Thornberg is there. It has it's moments but it's trying to hard to strike lightning twice.
The third movie, I think, re-achieves some of the glory of the first movie while borrowing almost none of the tropes established in the series. It's not confined to one location, McClane is in his own element working with his own fellow officers on some equitable level, his wife isn't in peril so he has no "personal stake" in this beyond just doing his job and he's not "one man vs. the bad guys" but is given a "side-kick" of sorts to work along with. There's just a lot of good things in this movie. I really wish the "Simon Says" thing had played out a little longer, or really, been the whole movie rather than a pretty damn ballsy, convoluted and big heist disguised as a terrorist attack but, still Jeremy Irons gives us a great performance and probably bests Alan Rickman as the villain.
The fourth movie is okay, it has some flaws in it for sure. I think Bruce Willis certainly pulled off the action and so forth well enough given his age but Justin Long just does not work at all as the side-kick/co-star. He's almost the Willie Scott of the movie in being more of an annoyance than a help. The movie was too much like an "escort mission" in a FPS that ends up lasting pretty much the whole damn game.
The fifth movie I think I like more than most do, mainly because I can almost watch Bruce Willis in anything. The change of venue, however, didn't work for me and there were too many scenes where it just seemed like John McClane was going overboard in the lengths he'd go to do things. I mean, we know you want to save your son and all, John, but I don't think driving a truck off an overpass onto a string of cars below in fucking Russia is going to do you many favors.
Ranking them I'd go with this:
Die Hard
Die Hard With a Vengeance (Die Hard 3)
Die Hard 2 ("Die Harder.")
Live Free or Die Hard (Die Hard 4)
A Good Day to Die Hard (Die Hard 5)
For Lethal Weapon:
Lethal Weapon 2
Lethal Weapon
Lethal Weapon 3
Lethal Weapon 4
Well, if it's the series...
Die Hard- amazing construction, basically invents the modern action movie.
Die Hard 2- Great fun, but derivative (aside from the similarities to the first movie, there's a whole midsection totally ripped off from John Woo's The Killer, and so on)
Die Hard With A Vengeance- well constructed, good villain, but the end is just a sort of...dissipation. And the unused alternate end sucks too.
Live Free Or Die Hard- Great fun again, feels good, works to both expand the playground and follow the formula, but McClane is more a superpowered action hero than a down at heel everyman this time.
A Good Day To Die Hard- haven't seen it yet.
Lethal Weapon- really well handled, defines the modern buddy-cop genre. Good use of drama for Riggs' internal conflicts.
Lethal Weapon 2- Even better, with good use of humour replacing the drama for the redeemed Riggs.
Lethal Weapon 3- A fucking abomination, reminiscent of Police Academy, which simply repeats the gags from the previous movie to no effect, and has basically no plot.
Lethal Weapon 4- a slight improvement on 3, with the familiar cast and crew having fun and letting the audience in on it. Jet Li and a better plot make it better than 3, but there's some astonishing (even for 1998) racism on show with the "flied lice" gags.
So, Die Hard gets two greats, two goods, and an unknown to me, while Lethal Weapon gets two greats, one good, and one crap. Which means the Die Hard series, for me, wins on points even without having seen the fifth one.
Die Hard- amazing construction, basically invents the modern action movie.
Die Hard 2- Great fun, but derivative (aside from the similarities to the first movie, there's a whole midsection totally ripped off from John Woo's The Killer, and so on)
Die Hard With A Vengeance- well constructed, good villain, but the end is just a sort of...dissipation. And the unused alternate end sucks too.
Live Free Or Die Hard- Great fun again, feels good, works to both expand the playground and follow the formula, but McClane is more a superpowered action hero than a down at heel everyman this time.
A Good Day To Die Hard- haven't seen it yet.
Lethal Weapon- really well handled, defines the modern buddy-cop genre. Good use of drama for Riggs' internal conflicts.
Lethal Weapon 2- Even better, with good use of humour replacing the drama for the redeemed Riggs.
Lethal Weapon 3- A fucking abomination, reminiscent of Police Academy, which simply repeats the gags from the previous movie to no effect, and has basically no plot.
Lethal Weapon 4- a slight improvement on 3, with the familiar cast and crew having fun and letting the audience in on it. Jet Li and a better plot make it better than 3, but there's some astonishing (even for 1998) racism on show with the "flied lice" gags.
So, Die Hard gets two greats, two goods, and an unknown to me, while Lethal Weapon gets two greats, one good, and one crap. Which means the Die Hard series, for me, wins on points even without having seen the fifth one.
Don't get the LW3 hate.
I can remember LW 1, 2 and 4. I've seen LW 3 but struggle to recall anything about it, except notionally that it introduced Rene Russo's character. I don't think my feelings about it even rise to LW 3 "hate."
OTOH all the Die Hard sequels felt forced and superfluous. The formula was just too specific for it to keep happening to the same character all the time. I wonder if it wouldn't have been a better idea to go with a different star for the sequel, like Predator 2 did.
OTOH all the Die Hard sequels felt forced and superfluous. The formula was just too specific for it to keep happening to the same character all the time. I wonder if it wouldn't have been a better idea to go with a different star for the sequel, like Predator 2 did.
I love Lethal Weapon 3. My main reason for this love is the opening credits sequence. The song perfectly captures the comradery between the two leads and their friendship. The imagery showing during this credit (of a gathering flames) matches Rigg's ultimate solution at the end of the film, catching the construction site in a string of fire from the ruptured fuel tank of a moving vehicle.
Here it is, but just ignore the annoying subtitles.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kUvUvjydI[/yt]
Here it is, but just ignore the annoying subtitles.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kUvUvjydI[/yt]
LW3 is my favorite actually (seems to be seasonal, sometimes LW2 is better). The banter, the armored car chase, the hockey game, the bike chase, the final battle, the scars foreplay scene, the subplot where Roger kills his son's friend...
As absolutely gorgeous as Patsy Kensit is in LW2 (you automatically feel for her character, and her accent is to die for), she is given a rather predictable arc in the film, written to die to give the hero a motive, Rene Russo was much more of a woman that is up to the caliber of Rigg's
Interestingly enough, they actually had her survive the film initially (and there were even scenes filmed of her that took place at the end of the film. Somewhere along the line though I suppose they thought the film would play better if she was killed and Riggs was pushed over the edge.
As Patrick Stewart said to Ricky Gervais' character in that episode of "Extras"; "good lord'.I've not seen any Die Hards.
Nor any Lethal Weapons.
Nor A Christmas Story.
Nor It's a Wonderful Life.
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