Did we really wants "Battlestar Galactica'?

[Bry_Sinclair]

Finally imagine yourself trapped on that ship seventy years from home, with people trying to blow you up every other week, your ship taking a pounding, limited supplies etc.. Are you really saying that it would never get to you the fact that you might never see home again? They never really sold us that these people might never see their homes again, sure the writers knew they would but the characters wouldn't know that.

How much more developed would Kim be if he started out as the eager, young, "momma's boy" ensign before having to deal with the realisation that he'll never see them again, the emotional fallout alone would make him a sympathetic character--not to mention the possibility of self-destructive behaviour he might take on to deal with it (he's set himself up to be the perfect officer so turns to stimulants to keep up with the impossible level he's set for himself).

Or Chakotay actually taking a different stance on situations and not just being Janeway's "token Maquis"? Actively working against her at times to make the lives of the crew better. Ramp up the tension between them and actually give them some conflict.

They could've given bland character a little depth and interest to them.

 

[Squiggy]

Yes. We wants it.

 

[Anwar]

Finally imagine yourself trapped on that ship seventy years from home, with people trying to blow you up every other week, your ship taking a pounding, limited supplies etc.. Are you really saying that it would never get to you the fact that you might never see home again? They never really sold us that these people might never see their homes again, sure the writers knew they would but the characters wouldn't know that.

Unfortunately, the fact they did this very same plot like 2-3 times in TOS and TNG meant that even to the crew they knew this wasn't an inescapable situation and that both Kirk and Picard came back from it.

The lack of greater plot really hurt things. If they had some other plot to drive the show they could've brought them back to the Federation by Season 3 or so and then have a reason for them to have to go back out there for the rest of the series.

 

[stardream]

How much more developed would Kim be if he started out as the eager, young, "momma's boy" ensign before having to deal with the realisation that he'll never see them again, the emotional fallout alone would make him a sympathetic character--not to mention the possibility of self-destructive behaviour he might take on to deal with it (he's set himself up to be the perfect officer so turns to stimulants to keep up with the impossible level he's set for himself).

Or Chakotay actually taking a different stance on situations and not just being Janeway's "token Maquis"? Actively working against her at times to make the lives of the crew better. Ramp up the tension between them and actually give them some conflict.

They could've given bland character a little depth and interest to them.

I like your imagination.

 

[Anwar]

The cast size should've been adjusted as well. DS9 got their larger cast to work because they had access to the entire Trekverse and had them going all over the place thanks to their war storyline and everything leading up to it. And even then some characters still were underused.

VOY's cast should've been smaller. That would make the storytelling easier and allow for more usage of guest characters.

Janeway, Chakotay, Paris, Tuvok and maybe the Doctor would be the Primary cast. Kim, Kes, Neelix and Torres would be recurring Secondaries.

 

[Rahul]

...

Well, all of those things are very energy consuming:
shuttles and torpedoes need engines and anti-matter, the holodeck and replicators create matter out of pure energy. So it's logical they should be rationized.

As for Neelix' food: When you have only a few replicator rations, his food is probably still preferable to the 'standard protein rations'.

I though that the replicators basically convert one form of matter to another. So you have to expend energy to in essence umake it and then expend more energy to convert it to something useful. So they have to have bulk matter to work, it's not greated out of thin air i.e. erengy.


[ ... ]

i.e we only have 38 torpedeos and no way to replace them.

The logical extension of that is if they can't replace something like a torpdeo then they have no chance of replacing something more complex like say a shuttlecraft.

Lets not forgot a torpedeo is a little bigger than a human, so that might mean they can't repalce hull panels, interior panels etc...

No you can argue it was a bad line and perhaps it was but rather than address the issue which would have taken all of three or so seconds.

Captain's Log, Engineering reports they have found a way to build new photon torpedeos

Job done, it shows your audiance that you aren't treating them as idiots. If you are reading a book and in Chapter 7a limitation is placed and in Chapter 34 the writer ignores the limitation without reason you would call it sloppy writing.

Unlike TNG for some VOY seemed to lean more towards the serialised format of storytelling for some . Not saying one form is better than the other.

At the end of the day VOY could have had tighter continuity and perhaps and most of it would have made little impact to the episodes themsevles so would really impact the casual viewer but could have helped allievate some of the compaints levelled at it from some of the fans. So it could potentailly have sruck a balance between nuBSG and what we got.

True some of the problems of VOY came from network interfference and VOY isn#t alone in suffering from netwrok interferance E:FC and Andromeda anyone?

Ah, yes. Should have made myself a bit clearer: Of course Replicators don't create matter out of pure energy. That would be a bit... consuming. With E=mc² that would require a manyfold of the energy of Hiroshima just to create a sandwich

What I wanted to say: They need energy to create matter out of different matter. I basically assume that everytime we see a special effect (Beaming, Replicators, Holodeck, Force Fields, etc.) the amount of energy of an Iron Man-reactor is needed. Loose enough?



As for the line:
i.e we only have 38 torpedeos and no way to replace them.

I always assumed they could replicate basically everything, except for pure energy or antimatter. Which means: they can recreate most basic things, but complicated machinery (like, say, photon torpedoes, shuttles or the Delta Flyer) needed to be engineered and built by crewmembers. Which means they can nreate new ones on their own, just not non-stop.

 

[MacLeod]

^But if they could replicate the parts to build a new torpedeo they would have a way to replace them. As we are told they have no way to replace them doesn't that by definition rule the replicators out?

 

[Rahul]

Hm, maybe he meant "...no means to replace them... until we find some antimatter somewhere."

Which could have been bought, or a gift from allies, or given in exchange by some random space merchants...

Generally I don't think every line of a tv-show needs to be taken at verbatim. Remember how in the original series the Romulans weren't supposed to have warp drive, even though they used it in the very same episode?

And this line about the torpedoes really doesn't have that much weight to it. It's not something like "warp 10 is everywhere at once", more like a regular problem that could have easily been fixed off-screen and didn't needed to be adressed. (I mean, sure, it would have been nice if they would have adressed it. But we saw the Voyager crew creating so much new tech on their own, it seems reasonable they fixed this issue without it being a major problem or a story worth telling the audience about...)

 

[Anwar]

^But if they could replicate the parts to build a new torpedeo they would have a way to replace them. As we are told they have no way to replace them doesn't that by definition rule the replicators out?

This is the problem when the limiting issues don't really make much sense.

 

[fireproof78]

Finally imagine yourself trapped on that ship seventy years from home, with people trying to blow you up every other week, your ship taking a pounding, limited supplies etc.. Are you really saying that it would never get to you the fact that you might never see home again? They never really sold us that these people might never see their homes again, sure the writers knew they would but the characters wouldn't know that.

How much more developed would Kim be if he started out as the eager, young, "momma's boy" ensign before having to deal with the realisation that he'll never see them again, the emotional fallout alone would make him a sympathetic character--not to mention the possibility of self-destructive behaviour he might take on to deal with it (he's set himself up to be the perfect officer so turns to stimulants to keep up with the impossible level he's set for himself).

Or Chakotay actually taking a different stance on situations and not just being Janeway's "token Maquis"? Actively working against her at times to make the lives of the crew better. Ramp up the tension between them and actually give them some conflict.

They could've given bland character a little depth and interest to them.

That sounds really nice. I would have appreciate much more interesting characters than what was given, beyond Tom Paris, who I found interesting, and Tuvok's occasional bright moments.

Honestly, if they wanted an episodic show, then that's what they got. But the characters could have at least developed more.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I like your imagination.

That sounds really nice. I would have appreciate much more interesting characters than what was given, beyond Tom Paris, who I found interesting, and Tuvok's occasional bright moments.

Honestly, if they wanted an episodic show, then that's what they got. But the characters could have at least developed more.

Thanks

I'm telling you, the ideas and thoughts I have on revamping some previous Trek's are sheer awesomeness--well in my head at least

 

[MacLeod]

Hm, maybe he meant "...no means to replace them... until we find some antimatter somewhere."

Which could have been bought, or a gift from allies, or given in exchange by some random space merchants...

Generally I don't think every line of a tv-show needs to be taken at verbatim. Remember how in the original series the Romulans weren't supposed to have warp drive, even though they used it in the very same episode?

And this line about the torpedoes really doesn't have that much weight to it. It's not something like "warp 10 is everywhere at once", more like a regular problem that could have easily been fixed off-screen and didn't needed to be adressed. (I mean, sure, it would have been nice if they would have adressed it. But we saw the Voyager crew creating so much new tech on their own, it seems reasonable they fixed this issue without it being a major problem or a story worth telling the audience about...)

I understand what you are saying, but if a writer brings something to the audiances attention then it's not unreasonable for the audiance to critise them when they ignore it because it's inconveniant.

Limitations can be a good thing from a storytelling point of view. You only have X of something and can'r replace it do you use some of it up now or keep it for later use.

Your down to your last operational shuttle that means using it becomes more a risk as you could lose a valubale resource.

You lose crew that means what crew you have, have to work longer shuifts they could become tired and begin to make mistakes etc..

So much potential story telling avenues that largely went unused.

 

[E-DUB]

They stuck with the Kazon far too long. I read somewhere that they were based on L.A. street gangs. You don't encounter them in Nevada. They should have went from the Kazons in the first half of season 1 into the Vidiians in the second half. From there on out each season should have had two or three recurring foes, the Krenim and the Devore could have filled those roles, all leaving room for "alien of the week" episodes along the ways.

 

[BillJ]

Did we really wants "Battlestar Galactica'?

No.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They stuck with the Kazon far too long. I read somewhere that they were based on L.A. street gangs. You don't encounter them in Nevada.

And the Kazon just went rolling along...

 

[Lance]

As someone who quite likes the original 1970s version, and hated the remake... my estimation of Ron Moore went through the floor after what he did to nuBSG. So yeah, I can say hand on heart that, for all the faults Voyager may have had, I'm sure glad Moore didn't get his talons into it.

 

[fireproof78]

Hm, maybe he meant "...no means to replace them... until we find some antimatter somewhere."

Which could have been bought, or a gift from allies, or given in exchange by some random space merchants...

Generally I don't think every line of a tv-show needs to be taken at verbatim. Remember how in the original series the Romulans weren't supposed to have warp drive, even though they used it in the very same episode?

And this line about the torpedoes really doesn't have that much weight to it. It's not something like "warp 10 is everywhere at once", more like a regular problem that could have easily been fixed off-screen and didn't needed to be adressed. (I mean, sure, it would have been nice if they would have adressed it. But we saw the Voyager crew creating so much new tech on their own, it seems reasonable they fixed this issue without it being a major problem or a story worth telling the audience about...)

I understand what you are saying, but if a writer brings something to the audiances attention then it's not unreasonable for the audiance to critise them when they ignore it because it's inconveniant.

Limitations can be a good thing from a storytelling point of view. You only have X of something and can'r replace it do you use some of it up now or keep it for later use.

Your down to your last operational shuttle that means using it becomes more a risk as you could lose a valubale resource.

You lose crew that means what crew you have, have to work longer shuifts they could become tired and begin to make mistakes etc..

So much potential story telling avenues that largely went unused.

I agree, very much, with this analysis/comment.

The idea of describing something as important, only to ignore it without comment, is in essence a Chekhov's gun that turned in to an aborted arc. It was presented as important and then dropped. Or, it was a red herring.

In any case, it is really frustrating to look at VOY, see the potential, and watch it get missed time after time.

And now I'm sad

 

[Anwar]

Limitations can be a good thing from a storytelling point of view. You only have X of something and can'r replace it do you use some of it up now or keep it for later use.

Your down to your last operational shuttle that means using it becomes more a risk as you could lose a valubale resource.

You lose crew that means what crew you have, have to work longer shuifts they could become tired and begin to make mistakes etc..

So much potential story telling avenues that largely went unused.

All of which makes more sense when you're telling a mini-series or a 1-2 season show. With a 7 season show, that stuff more or less has to be resolved if you want to keep going.

IE, Farscape. We're told that Moya is a living ship and this somehow is a justification for why it hardly ever needs any maintenance.

If it was a living ship, it would need to eat something to generate power. But we never ever see anything like this. The only times the ship needed any kind of maintenance was for stuff like a season finale or something.

Did anyone complain or point this out?

 

[apollo1984]

I think when it comes to did we want another BSG, then no I don't think people really did.
That said however, I am sure people would have liked a compromise between the 2 e.g. not have the ship so easily repairable I mean without access to star bases could you really keep the hull looking so pristine each week? also most of the time I felt that there was only an illusion when it came to limited resources like replicator rations was the token item when it came to this.
The 2 crews did work together too easy too, I am not saying you did need BSG here but there should have been a lot more distrust, many Marquee were there because they felt betrayed by the federation so why would they so easily put on a star fleet uniform whether they were in starfleet before or not.

 

[fireproof78]

Limitations can be a good thing from a storytelling point of view. You only have X of something and can'r replace it do you use some of it up now or keep it for later use.

Your down to your last operational shuttle that means using it becomes more a risk as you could lose a valubale resource.

You lose crew that means what crew you have, have to work longer shuifts they could become tired and begin to make mistakes etc..

So much potential story telling avenues that largely went unused.

All of which makes more sense when you're telling a mini-series or a 1-2 season show. With a 7 season show, that stuff more or less has to be resolved if you want to keep going.

IE, Farscape. We're told that Moya is a living ship and this somehow is a justification for why it hardly ever needs any maintenance.

If it was a living ship, it would need to eat something to generate power. But we never ever see anything like this. The only times the ship needed any kind of maintenance was for stuff like a season finale or something.

Did anyone complain or point this out?

iriscentent fluid: noun - a fluid Moya uses for fuel, and necessary for her functioning.

It was mentioned in passing, but never a major plot point

I wonder at the planning out 7 seasons of a show, though. Did any other Trek have that planned out? Did TNG staffers expect 7 seasons?

The point of storytelling is to come up with interesting stories and characters that entertain, and possibly convey a moral or a point.

I think, as Bry Sinclair, pointed out, there was so much more that could have been done with the characters that are missed opportunities. Regardless of plot point (Lost Ship, and what-have-you) that characters need plots and arcs, even if the show is episodic. M*A*S*H is a great example of this.