Did Voyager make the Borg unscary?

[DGCatAniSiri]

People,

One thing always puzzled me. Aside from the out-of-universe fact that sending the Borg in large numbers would spell the end of the Federation, and therefore any ST series wouldn't survive such an attack, meaning the end of the shows, I always wondered why the Borg didn't send more than a few cubes at a time to assimilate the Federation. I recall that Guinan said of the Borg in their first appearance something to the effect that they never do anything half-way.

The Borg were based in the Delta Quadrant. From that distance, which for the most part, the Federation wasn't capable of crossing without significant outside assistance (re: Q or some other highly advanced lifeform). So to the Borg, the Federation was a minor annoyance on the other side of the galaxy - almost as if they're playing with the Federation. To the Borg, the Federation's assimilation was inevitable, so they could have their minor victories - for every cube they destroy, the Borg have another thousand they can use, with more coming togeter all the time. The Borg consider, if the word can be applied, that they're unstoppable, so they can send one ship at the Federation and lose it, lulling the Federation into believing that they've done something significant while the Borg adapt to their strategies.

In a way, it's fairly ingenious - FORCING their enemies to become stronger and smarter, so that when the Borg assimilate them, they've gained more knowledge and information than they would have if they'd just left their enemies alone.

As to the OP's question, VOY made the Borg a bit less formidable, but they were still scary at times. I think the scariest was in the ep with the Borg offpsring of Seven and the Doctor, the character called One -- if he were assimilated, because he had 29th century technology in his construction, the Borg would become unstoppable. That sent chills down my spine.

Yeah, just the thought of the Borg getting their assimilation tubes into technology five centuries ahead of what they've got is terrifying - it's almost a textbook example of the Temporal Prime Directive and shuts me up about it for a minute as I consider that future knowledge getting into the hands of the Borg. Remember, One came from just a mobile emitter - that's not exactly a weapon, now is it? And he managed to walk all over the Voyager security teams and the Borg on the sphere. Just think about the Borg having that power.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

VOY Borg episode list

Is their a webpage that lists every Voyager episode with the Borg in it?

The Treknation episode guide only lists them by order# and name, and airdate but not by character or enemy, plot keywords.

 

[Praetorian]

Memory Alpha's Borg page.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

The Borg weren't even scary by the end of the TNG series. So I don't see how Voyager ruined them in any way.

People like to say, "oh Voyager was constantly beating the Borg like it was nothing" but if you watch the actual episodes then you will see that wasn't the case. It was always a big deal when they showed up. There were always extenuating circumstances when Voyager "won".

They also had Seven with them.

I like most of the Voyager Borg episodes and I think Voyager made them more interesting if anything.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Re: VOY Borg episode list

Is their a webpage that lists every Voyager episode with the Borg in it?

Memory Alpha's page has

...in nineteen episodes of Star Trek: Voyager.
...only a fraction of these nineteen appearances actually had them as the main villains

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Borg#Appearances

• VOY: (22)
  • "Blood Fever" (corpse)
  • "Unity"
  • "Scorpion"
  • "Scorpion, Part II"
  • "The Raven"
  • "Living Witness" (holograms)
  • "One" (hallucinations)
  • "Hope and Fear"
  • "Drone"
  • "Infinite Regress"
  • "Dark Frontier"
  • "Survival Instinct"
  • "Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy" (holograms)
  • "Collective"
  • "Child's Play"
  • "Unimatrix Zero"
  • "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
  • "Imperfection"
  • "Flesh and Blood" (hologram)
  • "Shattered"
  • "Q2"
  • "Endgame"

I see when they are only a hologram they are not counted as the 19 episodes...thanks Praetorian.

The Borg Fan Collective DVD only has 7 episodes from VOY.
Out of additional 15 episodes would you guys give me recommendations as to another 3 great Borg VOY episodes that were not on the Fan Collective DVD?

 

[Dane_Whitman]

People like to say, "oh Voyager was constantly beating the Borg like it was nothing" but if you watch the actual episodes then you will see that wasn't the case. It was always a big deal when they showed up. There were always extenuating circumstances when Voyager "won".

They also had Seven with them.

You make a very good point here.

 

[Praetorian]

Yes, I also agree with that assesment!

Frankly the only time I had a problem with Voyager's portrayal of the Borg is at the end of "Dark Frontier"...
The Queen is afraid of being shot by Janeway/having her chamber bombarbed by the Delta Flyer, and caves in to Janeway's threats. Nevermind how the Delta Flyer manages to infiltrate the Borg Capital (with technology the Colective had already assimilated!) and to escape afterwards.

A real Borg Queen would have said: "Go ahead, blow me up, death is irrelevant, you will be assimilated!"
I would rather have Janeway just shoot her wait out with the help of Seven and the Delta Flyer, none of this "complying and submissive Borg" crap...

But as it was said, other then that the Borg we're always a menace and Voyager never really defeated them...except in "Endgame" for obvious reasons...

 

[Jaespol]

The lo-light was when the Borg Queen didn't want to assimilate Voyager, since when did the Borg not assimilate?

I also found it ridiculous how in Unimatrix Zero, Voyager took on a huge Borg battle cube and won, what a load of crap!

 

[The Grim Ghost]

^ I think it was due to Seven being there.
Also you're making it sound like they just fired at the Cube and blew it up. It wasn't like that, there was a whole involved plan going on involving them getting onboard.

Yes, there were probably a few times when Voyager got off a little easily.

For example, when they beamed the photorp over. I would have thought that the Borg would have been able to deal with something like that.

But Voyager was never blowing up cubes left and right or anything close to that. They didn't actually win very often. Mostly they just survived or escaped. Without Seven's help and other plot devices they would have been killed or assimilated instantly.

I didn't like everything Voyager did with the Borg, but I did like most of it. They had already played out the uber scary force of nature type Borg by the end of TNG. That kind of story could only have impact for so long.
I liked learning more about them through Voyager.

Remember for all the Borg's talk about adapting to everything, there were still certain things that they couldn't do. They weren't creative. Heck, they couldn't even run! They never used anything other than hand to hand combat when confronted in person. They never overcame the HUGE problem of ignoring people on their ships while being actively investigated/sabotaged. Add Seven's knowledge to these weaknesses and you have something you can exploit.

The Borg were never invincible or invulnerable like some say. They were tough but never unbeatable.

 

[Brit]

The Borg were a "dying" race by the time of "First Contact", because this event coincided with their discovery of fluid space and Species 8472. (this is easily checked if you go back and look at the star dates).

They were only as strong as individual's power to resist them was weak, Borg strength was dependent on assimilating technology faster than the ingenuity to come up with technologies to resist them.

So with in the span of just a few weeks, the Borg encountered Species 8472 and then tried to invade The Federation, were defeated and finally tried to stop the Federation from being born, they failed at that too, and the "First Contact" Queen became the first Queen to die from something other than synaptic failure (old age).

The Borg were on borrowed time after that. They wouldn't realize it of course, because I doubt they knew the meaning of the word failure, but their end started with the meeting of a species they couldn't assimuilate and the Federation.

The Federation had the cohesiveness of the collective coupled with the flexibility of the individual.

Brit (who thinks this is a good idea for a story).

 

[Tachyon]

Did Voyager make the Borg unscary?

Unfortunately yes.

And even slightly boring. I cannot stand either Dark Frontier or Unimatrix Zero. Unity and Scorpion - those were da bomb!

 

[Jaespol]

The Borg were just stupid from the beginning really.
Who on earth decided it was logical for the Borg to ignore you unless you were a threat?
And how exactly are people walking around your cube with big ass guns not a threat?
And its clear the Borg could defeat the Federation so easily! But they didn't because that's what the plot demanded but that just wasn't believable to me.
Awful!

 

[Tachyon]

I think the Borg is a fascinating concept. Overused in Voyager and Trek books, though.

 

[TheGodBen]

Did Voyager make the Borg unscary?

Unfortunately yes.

And even slightly boring. I cannot stand either Dark Frontier or Unimatrix Zero. Unity and Scorpion - those were da bomb!

Prepare to be shocked, because I'm actually going to back you up on something.

It is true that the destruction of the Borg began on TNG with Hugh, but at least he only represented a single Borg, and Descent was about a group of Borg who broke away from the Collective. And both times the Enterprise was no match for the Borg ships, they had to hide from them and generate solar flares in order to survive encounters with them.

But in Dark Frontier and Unimatrix Zero it was the Borg Collective proper that the Voyager crew went up against, they even managed to infiltrate the main Borg complex and escape unharmed. When TNG softened up the Borg they weren't softening up the Collective as a whole, but Voyager did exactly that, and I find Unimatrix Zero in particular to be unpalatable.

Voyager did do some good with the Borg, Scorpion springs to mind, but ultimately I think they ruined them as an enemy and I would be very happy if the Borg never showed up in Star Trek again because I'm sick of seeing them as a pale imitation of the cool race they once were.

 

[Jaespol]

I'm sick of Borg and Klingons.
Let's hope the new TNG-era series they're planning to go on air next year won't have either.

 

[TheGodBen]

I'm sick of Borg and Klingons.
Let's hope the new TNG-era series they're planning to go on air next year won't have either.

[Kyle's mom]Wha-wha-whaaat?!! [/Kyle's mom]

 

[Michael]

Let's hope the new TNG-era series they're planning to go on air next year won't have either.

Wow, you have a huge fantasy!

 

[Tachyon]

Prepare to be shocked, because I'm actually going to back you up on something.

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It is true that the destruction of the Borg began on TNG with Hugh, but at least he only represented a single Borg, and Descent was about a group of Borg who broke away from the Collective.

I must say that Descent was the most ridiculous thing TPTB ever did with the Borg, or what they ever ended up doing with the Borg in Voyager. Geez that episodes sucks.

But so do Dark Frontier and Unimatrix Zero.

I can watch the first 20 minutes of Dark Frontier until I come to the conclusion that I cannot take that sh!t more. What comes to Unimatrix Zero - everything was a turn off for me in that one. I even hated how they wrote Janeway in it. I think I hate it even more than Threshold and that speaks volumes.

 

[startrekwatcher]

It is true that the destruction of the Borg began on TNG with Hugh, but at least he only represented a single Borg, and Descent was about a group of Borg who broke away from the Collective.

TNG the series had nothing to do with the destruction of the Borg. Every appearance was a chilling and unnerving experience and each of those episodes created real dread. Just look how one crashed scout ship and one lone adolescent Borg put every one on edge.

And there were plenty of moments in Descent that were unsettling and where the intimdating nature of the Borg was front and present--the discovery of the mysterious alien ship in orbit; Data opening the door to reveal a Borg; the vicious attack sequence where the Borg were agile, quick, angry and with a newfound sense of individuality that included concern for their fallen comrades. Or what about that chilling discourse with Crosis or the away team being overrun by legions of angry Borg.

Those episodes did nothing to undercut the aura of the Borg developed in the earlier episodes. The real hit to the Borg was the introduction of the Queen in First Contact. She was portrayed as an emotional femme fatale who was only interested in Picard as a counterpart and when he rebuked her she behaved like a scorned woman--absolutely ridiculous. Scorpion, thankfully, returned to the faceless Collective with no emotional Queen.

But in Dark Frontier and Unimatrix Zero it was the Borg Collective proper that the Voyager crew went up against, they even managed to infiltrate the main Borg complex and escape unharmed.

I agree. The idea that the Delta Flyer could infiltrate Unimatrix One with dozens of cubes and billions of drones and walk out unscathed really was unbelievable. However, after this I realized the BOrg would never be the force they were once but theycould still be used in in entertaining stories like "Unimatrix Zero". Part I was great set-up with a cool idea but Part II mishandled it and didn't mine it to its full potential.

 

[Anwar]

The Borg had to be depowered for use in VOY, otherwise the show'd be over in less than 5 minutes. They only had access to one good guy ship, not entire armadas, and they very well couldn't have that one ship blown up could they?