Did They Jump Too Far?

[Phoenix219]

Me either. Picard season 3 was fun and seeing the Enterprise D again was a novelty, but the series was all about keeping the status quo and looking backwards. The new characters can't succeed without the old characters, the new hero ship can't succeed without the old hero ship, the main villains are hung up on a conflict that ended 25 years ago, the new peaceful Borg are ignored for the old, malevolent Borg. The Titan can't have it's own legacy but has to become an Enterprise. And Seven being it's Captain and Jack Crusher being assigned to it after skipping the academy entirely was just too much.

There's being reverential, and then there's whatever Terry Matalas wanted . A series being inexorably tied to the Next Generation and having no identity of it's own? Yeah I'll pass.

Personally, Legacy is the ONLY show that I'm interested in at this point (SNW has been slowly and steadily losing me since S1) and the easter eggs and connect-the-dots is half of the fun and half of the draw. Matalas season was so fun, it got me over literal DECADES of hate for the 24th century.

YMMV.

 

[Phoenix219]

Yup, 100% I believe this. The "flaws" that get pointed out are things present in other Trek productions, yet get a pass.

yup, i'm one of them. if they had stuck to TOS (Mirror Darkly, Axanar) style aesthetics, I would have let that damn show get away with absolutely ANYTHING and not complained about it.

 

[Daedalus]

I know people have alternate views about visual continuity and canon in general, but as an aside, Noah Hawley is absolutely keeping to the retro-futuristic aesthetic of Alien in his upcoming tv series.

That in itself gets me excited without knowing anything about the show.

It's probably not a safe mindset to be in, frankly, but my comfort levels are going to be sky-high when I see those ancient computer monitors and hear those eery electronic noises from the first movie.(You can probably hear those noises in your head if you remember the opening scene with the crew in hypersleep)

 

[Fateor]

Yup, 100% I believe this. The "flaws" that get pointed out are things present in other Trek productions, yet get a pass.

Not really.

Episode's like Spock's Brain and Threshold are widely panned for their similar levels of bad writing.

 

[fireproof78]

Not really.

Episode's like Spock's Brain and Threshold are widely panned for their similar levels of bad writing.

Are they still considered Star Trek?

 

[MakeshiftPython]

They’re also not “throwback” episodes either that carry a lot of baggage.

 

[Lord Garth]

Personally, Legacy is the ONLY show that I'm interested in at this point (SNW has been slowly and steadily losing me since S1) and the easter eggs and connect-the-dots is half of the fun and half of the draw. Matalas season was so fun, it got me over literal DECADES of hate for the 24th century.

Even though I re-discovered the 24th Century a few years earlier than you did (2019 to be exact), this is pretty much where I'm at. Though this has more to do with everything I was interested in for New Trek being wrapped up. Unless Legacy is greenlit, the next show I'm looking forward to the most is... Blade Runner 2099. Though I'll make it a point to get caught up on For All Mankind.

I'll give Starfleet Academy a fair shot, but I'm not sticking around if it doesn't hook me.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It would be very strange of them to have 3 out of 5 shows take place in the same era, then cancel all three and replace them with nothing. Especially considering Picard's success.

Personally, I'm sticking around to try everything, even if Section 31 and Starfleet Academy have always been high on my "I hope they never make this show" list, but my interest in the 24th/25th century is around 9/10, my interest in SNW's future setting is currently close to 4/10, and my interest in a series overlapping TOS is about -20.

It's always possible for the 32nd/33rd century to win me over, but it's going to need an aesthetic overhaul and some DS9-level world building first. It's not right for a Star Trek show to have no spaceships I like, not right at all.

 

[evilchumlee]

I think had Discovery just started out in the 32nd century, i'd have liked it more. DSC set me off on the wrong foot and was just never able to recover. I can't help but view it as "something else", not really Star Trek. Now I see the 32nd century era as part of that, so it still doesn't "feel" right to me, even though it's much better than where it started.

Which is odd though because SNW, born of Discovery... is fine. I don't love it and S2 I thought was a big step down from S1, but overall SNW is alright. SNW "feels" like Star Trek the way DSC never did, even the later seasons.

yup, i'm one of them. if they had stuck to TOS (Mirror Darkly, Axanar) style aesthetics, I would have let that damn show get away with absolutely ANYTHING and not complained about it.

Yep. Same. It could have been the same exact show, but keep with those aesthetics, I would be an absolute Discovery fanboy. It needed to do exactly one thing for me, and it did not deliver.

Picard has been the only thing in the new Trek that i've really cared about. I was on top those as soon as they came out and have rewatched every episode many times now. Discovery... one and done. SNW? It's fine. Prodigy? Actually surprisingly good, but still never quite grabbed me. LDS is fun but I also see that as not really being Star Trek, it feels more like a show ABOUT Star Trek.

 

[Phoenix219]

I think had Discovery just started out in the 32nd century, i'd have liked it more. DSC set me off on the wrong foot and was just never able to recover. I can't help but view it as "something else", not really Star Trek. Now I see the 32nd century era as part of that, so it still doesn't "feel" right to me, even though it's much better than where it started.

Which is odd though because SNW, born of Discovery... is fine. I don't love it and S2 I thought was a big step down from S1, but overall SNW is alright. SNW "feels" like Star Trek the way DSC never did, even the later seasons.



Yep. Same. It could have been the same exact show, but keep with those aesthetics, I would be an absolute Discovery fanboy. It needed to do exactly one thing for me, and it did not deliver.

Picard has been the only thing in the new Trek that i've really cared about. I was on top those as soon as they came out and have rewatched every episode many times now. Discovery... one and done. SNW? It's fine. Prodigy? Actually surprisingly good, but still never quite grabbed me. LDS is fun but I also see that as not really being Star Trek, it feels more like a show ABOUT Star Trek.

LD is really enjoyable to me, i've kind of bought in. There is enough celeb/hero worship in real life that i can handwave it. It feels/looks like Trek, anyways.

Its such a cool thought experiment, the same show, but in classic-view. (hey, if visuals are just the way its being displayed, it can go both ways right?) ... Discovery then, would have been TOS amped up with never-before-seen-in-universe movie style implementations , since its a secret advanced ship. the engines, for instance would have been TMP style. the different uniforms could have likewise, been styled after future-in-universe uniform varients, while Pike and the Enterprise would have been 100% faithful to TOS. The Klingons would have been TMP/TNG Klingons, pissed over all of the same things, plus the augment virus; REMAIN KLINGON! as Tyler's storyline would have had even more significance, with the augment virus and arne darvin connections more in mind.

anyone want to add to this mental excercise?

 

[The Wormhole]

anyone want to add to this mental excercise?

No

 

[Macgyver]

For star trek to now take place in the 32nd century it makes me hard to care about new adventures in the 24th and 25th century, since I now know that the vulcans and romulans will reunite, the breen won't be revealed, the mirror universe is gone, etc...

any potential stories that now take place in the 24th and 25th century will lose a lot of their luster and mystery, since we already know the long term impact of any decisions those characters will make.

Imagine if Discovery season 3 was released before TNG - all of these "galaxy changing events" that picard deals with, I would have no concern at all about what happens.

 

[Frontis]

Well, other writers could ignore it.
For me DISCO isn't canon either.

 

[The Wormhole]

For star trek to now take place in the 32nd century it makes me hard to care about new adventures in the 24th and 25th century, since I now know that the vulcans and romulans will reunite, the breen won't be revealed, the mirror universe is gone, etc...

any potential stories that now take place in the 24th and 25th century will lose a lot of their luster and mystery, since we already know the long term impact of any decisions those characters will make.

Imagine if Discovery season 3 was released before TNG - all of these "galaxy changing events" that picard deals with, I would have no concern at all about what happens.

Considering most of those didn't actually "change the galaxy" nothing would be any different.

 

[evilchumlee]

Its such a cool thought experiment, the same show, but in classic-view. (hey, if visuals are just the way its being displayed, it can go both ways right?) ... Discovery then, would have been TOS amped up with never-before-seen-in-universe movie style implementations , since its a secret advanced ship. the engines, for instance would have been TMP style. the different uniforms could have likewise, been styled after future-in-universe uniform varients, while Pike and the Enterprise would have been 100% faithful to TOS. The Klingons would have been TMP/TNG Klingons, pissed over all of the same things, plus the augment virus; REMAIN KLINGON! as Tyler's storyline would have had even more significance, with the augment virus and arne darvin connections more in mind.

anyone want to add to this mental excercise?

Makes me to sad to think about could have and should have been.

Early on I was trying to justify things a bit, prior to Enterprise showing up. I figured... ok, Discovery is a brand new ship. I can see it as being closer to the Movie-Era, so it makes sense. Enterprise is an older ship, so really the "TOS Look" is really more like 2230's-2240's, with the stuff we see in DSC being newer and the beginning of the Movie-Era.

If Discovery had been made in the style of Axanar, I would be the world's biggest Discovery fanboy.

 

[fireproof78]

If Discovery had been made in the style of Axanar, I would be the world's biggest Discovery fanboy.

Which blows my mind still. Like, all the story issues, the complaining over Klingons being not really Klingon (i.e. caring about the dead), Mirror Universe, Lorca, etc? It just takes a layer of paint to go fan boy?

any potential stories that now take place in the 24th and 25th century will lose a lot of their luster and mystery, since we already know the long term impact of any decisions those characters will make.

Anyone who says this just needs to watch Midway. Tell me if that lacks its luster?

 

[Daedalus]

Which blows my mind still. Like, all the story issues, the complaining over Klingons being not really Klingon (i.e. caring about the dead), Mirror Universe, Lorca, etc? It just takes a layer of paint to go fan boy?

Oh, I don't think we should underestimate the power of imagery in the slightest. When The Force Awakens trailer came out, you couldn't move for comments about that Star Destroyer in the sand. I hate sand....

Seriously though, for a brief period in time seeing that original Millennium Falcon brought all those Star Wars fans together. Han was basically dressed like he was over 30 years prior, Chewy was the same and X-wings still looked like X-wings.

It really is all it takes sometimes, for good or bad.

 

[evilchumlee]

Which blows my mind still. Like, all the story issues, the complaining over Klingons being not really Klingon (i.e. caring about the dead), Mirror Universe, Lorca, etc? It just takes a layer of paint to go fan boy?

Oh there would still be a ton of issues with Discovery...

BUT if a work does something well enough, i'm much more likely to let it slide/be an apologist for it. If the show looked and felt right, i'd be much more willing to put up with the rest of the bad.

Discovery did nothing well (or, very little anyway). It works in opposite... SNW still doesn't look right, but it does do alot well, so i'm more willing to overlook some of the issues.

I don't entirely mind the dead Klingons thing, but it should have been handled alittle differently. They needed to establish T'Kuvma's people as either some kind of different sect or what not, maybe with an eye towards true Klingon traditionalism... not the revisionist, warrior-caste version. As it stands, I can buy the vibe that DSC gave, with the Klingons have some society drift over the past century and recessing into culture defined by their houses. I'm fine with that.

 

[fireproof78]

BUT if a work does something well enough, i'm much more likely to let it slide/be an apologist for it. If the show looked and felt right, i'd be much more willing to put up with the rest of the bad.

I guess I get that.

To me, well, it was Trek. Trek has issues and none of Discovery's felt unique to that show, so the hatred directed at it (not just by you but just from the word jump) was strange.

I don't know. The show didn't look right, but it felt right to me. So that's probably the difference and proves your point.

 

[evilchumlee]

I guess I get that.

To me, well, it was Trek. Trek has issues and none of Discovery's felt unique to that show, so the hatred directed at it (not just by you but just from the word jump) was strange.

I don't know. The show didn't look right, but it felt right to me. So that's probably the difference and proves your point.

It's all different perspectives. Discovery didn't check any boxes for me. It definitely didn't look right. It never felt right, I got a very generic wannabe Battlestar Galactica vibe from it.

Discovery, at first anyway, felt very much like a generic sci-fi show with some Star Trek buzzwords thrown on top of it.

It did improve as time went on, and there some small bright spots (S1 with the Mudd Timeloop episode... one of the best of the series.) There was a huge improvement in S3, but it still never quite did it for me.

I feel like many of Discovery's problems were unique to the show. Yes, a big issue of mine was the general aesthetics of it. I do not have that issue with any other Star Trek, that has at least made some effort to remain at least reasonably visually consistent. But beyond that, I did a good many lore continuity issues... which sure, other Star Trek have dealt with but DSC was next level with some particularly egregious ones. I can excuse minor things, easily explainable. There are others that are just too much. And then we have Michael Burnham... who, in my opinion, may possibly be the single worst character in all of Star Trek and the show just kept doubling on down on her being the focus.