cool so neutronium mentioned in a conversation about advancements in hull technology.
Did They Jump Too Far?
- Thread starter MikeS
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cool so neutronium mentioned in a conversation about advancements in hull technology.
The SNL skit suddenly comes to mind.
This whole thread is a fantastic example of why jumping to the 32nd century was a mistake.
No one is arguing about the level of technological advances we saw in PIC or PRO. But realistically, we know there should be a massive gap between 23rd and 32nd century tech, and there just doesn't seem to be. And what we do see doesn't seem consistent with what was indicated before.
Yes, we can handwave it away. But we shouldn't have to. If you want to make a star trek series, if you want to play in that sandbox, you need to respect what was previously established, or else what's the point?
Critics want to say the 24th/25th century is played out. Bull. There's a wealth of stories to be had in the fall of the Romulan Empire. The fall of the Klingon Empire has been foreshadowed multiple times. We've barely touched the Breen, the Tholians, the Gorn, the Tzenkethi, the Krenim, the Hirogen, etc.
There's nothing, nothing that was done in the 32nd century that could not be done in the 25th. The Burn was an interesting concept handled atrociously (Dilithium is the only way to achieve warp? No slipstream, no transwarp, no protodrive, no space folding, no soliton wave, no nothing? Is that planet of dilithium really all that's left on the whole galaxy? How the hell did Cochrane invent warp with no dilithium?). None of it needed to be 1,000 years in the future.
No one is arguing about the level of technological advances we saw in PIC or PRO. But realistically, we know there should be a massive gap between 23rd and 32nd century tech, and there just doesn't seem to be. And what we do see doesn't seem consistent with what was indicated before.
Yes, we can handwave it away. But we shouldn't have to. If you want to make a star trek series, if you want to play in that sandbox, you need to respect what was previously established, or else what's the point?
Critics want to say the 24th/25th century is played out. Bull. There's a wealth of stories to be had in the fall of the Romulan Empire. The fall of the Klingon Empire has been foreshadowed multiple times. We've barely touched the Breen, the Tholians, the Gorn, the Tzenkethi, the Krenim, the Hirogen, etc.
There's nothing, nothing that was done in the 32nd century that could not be done in the 25th. The Burn was an interesting concept handled atrociously (Dilithium is the only way to achieve warp? No slipstream, no transwarp, no protodrive, no space folding, no soliton wave, no nothing? Is that planet of dilithium really all that's left on the whole galaxy? How the hell did Cochrane invent warp with no dilithium?). None of it needed to be 1,000 years in the future.
Sad but true. And it makes this all way less fun.
I remember having more fun being teased for liking TOS during TNG and DS9's heyday.
And then they based the entire last season on canon (a TNG episode), plus a bunch of references to canon.
Difference is they were mired in canon in the 23rd Century. Literally to the left and right of them.
With the jump it was looking backwards.
What about canon?Difference is they were mired in canon in the 23rd Century. Literally to the left and right of them.
Difference is they were mired in canon in the 23rd Century. Literally to the left and right of them.
To me that seems similar to saying "If you write a WW2 story, the problem is you're mired in canon on either side".
The Canon can be a boon, in teens of providing depth for the story you're telling.
The mire was mostly fans whining about THE CANON!!!!!!.
I'd get sick of that too, and say screw it, TIME JUMP!!!!!!
Star trek isn't history. The fan demands are not always coming across as getting check marks right. It comes across as expecting perfection and a certain feel that can't be articulated but the shoe constantly falls short of.
Honestly, it's like the relationship between Iska and Quark.
Without reading the rest of the posts, I'll say I think they jumped far enough. They jumped past everything covered in Berman Trek. I don't see DSC as a TOS Show, or even Neo-TOS, but I don't see it as a TNG Show either. So going beyond anything TNG-ENT reached was the right move.
The Burn was the perfect excuse to reset everything however they wanted, so Discovery could create its own future, rather than worry about sharing space with Picard or bumping up against the times of the 29th-31st Centuries as depicted in VOY and ENT.
In my perfect world, the first two seasons would've taken place during the Lost Era (the perfect middle ground between TOS and TNG) and then it would've jumped ahead to where it was for the rest of the series.
The Burn was the perfect excuse to reset everything however they wanted, so Discovery could create its own future, rather than worry about sharing space with Picard or bumping up against the times of the 29th-31st Centuries as depicted in VOY and ENT.
In my perfect world, the first two seasons would've taken place during the Lost Era (the perfect middle ground between TOS and TNG) and then it would've jumped ahead to where it was for the rest of the series.
It would've made the ghostly, sometimes malfunctioning, holograms make sense before the more realistic TNG versions came along.
Plus if the Discovery was a Crossfield adapted to the new spore drive tech, appearances from the Planet of the Titans prototype model could've been seen as the standard class. Though, quite the deep-cut reference.
Plus Section 31 having a TNG-style communicator works better a few decades before TNG instead of a century. It keeps the idea of S31 having tech on the cutting edge intact because they're only slightly ahead of everyone else.
Discovery's look and tech would have made more sense if it were set in the lost era.
Now who would have taken command in season 2? Rachel Garret followed by an Enterprise-C spinoff? And would we have seen Ambassador Spock? Would fans have been ready for an older more contemporary Spock who wasn't Nimoy?
Now who would have taken command in season 2? Rachel Garret followed by an Enterprise-C spinoff? And would we have seen Ambassador Spock? Would fans have been ready for an older more contemporary Spock who wasn't Nimoy?
Having Sarek adopt Burnham after Star Trek 5 also fixes objections to her backstory, but you have to remove her influence on young Spock from the story.
^ She could have even been Spock's adopted daughter. It would also make more sense that she was never mentioned. Lots of things could be shaken up and made to fit better with a simple era change.
I would've dropped the whole Spock angle. She can still be raised by Vulcans without them being Spock's family. If early-DSC was set in the 2310s, then Burnham's parents could've been killed shortly before TUC, so she would've carried that with her, even during changing times. It keeps the character beats intact.
A large segment of the Klingon Empire, 20-plus years after TUC would easily unite underneath T'Kuvma to Make the Empire Great Again. So, once again, that's kept intact.
So, no, it would be a new Captain. Picard's too young in the 2310s as well. Harriman could've been interesting, because he's tainted by being the Captain when Kirk was killed, but I don't know. Probably better to just go with someone new. They just have to be the Anti-Lorca, then it keeps most of the season the same, except for "If Memory Serves".
A large segment of the Klingon Empire, 20-plus years after TUC would easily unite underneath T'Kuvma to Make the Empire Great Again. So, once again, that's kept intact.
Garrett would be in her 20s at most with the way I have it. She looked like she was in her 40s in "Yesterday's Enterprise", meaning she'd really be in her teens during the 2310s. So, she wouldn't be Captain. It seems like Section 31 will have a 20-something Garrett, so I'm guessing S31 takes place in the 2320s (300 years after today). That would track.
So, no, it would be a new Captain. Picard's too young in the 2310s as well. Harriman could've been interesting, because he's tainted by being the Captain when Kirk was killed, but I don't know. Probably better to just go with someone new. They just have to be the Anti-Lorca, then it keeps most of the season the same, except for "If Memory Serves".
^ You're right. Garrett would have been too young. I was thinking 2320s, not 2310s. And even then...
A new captain might be preferable for most fans since it avoids the "small universe" issue but I'm inclined to look for a notable character who can substitute for Pike. Harriman and Demora Sulu are the only ones who com to mind. And they're still not Pike.
A new captain might be preferable for most fans since it avoids the "small universe" issue but I'm inclined to look for a notable character who can substitute for Pike. Harriman and Demora Sulu are the only ones who com to mind. And they're still not Pike.
When those NDAs all expire (assuming if they do), I wonder if they’ll actually admit that making Burnham into Spock’s adoptive sister was something pushed by executives in order to have the show tie in with an iconic element of TOS. Because I’d be surprised if that was something out of Fuller’s own volition. So much of the decisions just seem too peculiar, too cynical for me to believe someone really thought “this is the only way to go”.
I’m just eager to hear everything laid out like it finally was with TNG’s BTS hellstorm.
I’m just eager to hear everything laid out like it finally was with TNG’s BTS hellstorm.
Don't quote me on it, but I seem to remember the Inglorious Treksperts and/or RMB joking it was for ten years.
When ANDROMEDA finally bowed out, Robert Hewitt Wolfe (of DS9 fame and the show's original developer) revealed what his original plan for the show was. So there's also a chance Fuller might be able to reveal more now that the show has concluded.
It's be mentioned numerous times that the Fuller and Meyer drafts of the first two episodes, as well as the outlines for the first 13 episodes, are in closely held circulation. Sooner or later someone with access might intentionally or not leak it to the wider internet.
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