Brooks did not like the notion of a black man abandoning his children; he wanted solace for his character and the ones he loved.
Did the Prophets intend for the Bajoran Occupation to occur?
- Thread starter Citiprime
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The Prophets knew the Occupation was going to happen and knew the Dominion would be destroyed by the consequences. They also presumably know when Bajor's sun will explode as well as the Cardassians and Bajorans eventually having one of their children be President of the Federation.
If you're beyond time, you know ALL OF IT.
If you're beyond time, you know ALL OF IT.
The messiah nonsense from the 4th through the 7th seasons would've been easier to accept if Sisko had a calling to go to DS9 than being ordered there.
I'm not sure whether the Prophets 'intended' the occupation or not, but they seemed to perhaps have 'used' it in a way to further Bajoran society. Consider Accession, where Akorem Laan (a poet from 3 centuries before) is sent to Sisko's time. He wants to re-introduce the d'jarra system (a kind of seemingly very rigid caste system). It is explained to the viewers that Bajor abolished this system in order to fight the Cardassians. The Prophets then later tell Akorem that the 'd'jarras are part of what the Sisko would call the past', and that he was sent into the future not to restore them, but 'for the Sisko' (presumably having to do with bolstering his motivation for the job).
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I do not.
I don't care about providing ad hoc definitions for “vague words”. I simply do not utilize them to make my arguments.
A word is only useful in it's usage if I can with confidence assume the person with whom I speak has the same conception of it as I.
Such as, in this case, I simply point out that vast civilizations, including his one, have never used “omnipotence” as a criterion to call something a “god”, nor have the Bajorans ever claimed that the prophets were “omnipotent” and there certainly seem to be limits to their powers.
Which was completely ridiculous. Besides that tepid episode conveyed, Sisko was doing just fine as the Emissary, he may have had doubts but he never shown he wouldn't do anything in his power to defend Bajor, accepting a title doesn't and would never change his responsibilities as noble hero.
I mean we know how the Prophets "used" the Occupation because we know how they intervened: Sisko.
I would say the occupation wasn't needed to bring Sisko in. At least not from our perspective. It's not too hard to imagine a more peaceful timeline for Bajor, where Bajor never was occupied, asks for admittance to the Federation, the Federation sees potential but also thinks the Federation and Bajor should first work closer together for a while, and for that reason send Sisko in, after which we basically get our situation, minus the Cardassian Occupation background part, of course.
Of course, there still could be a myriad arcane (to us) reasons why the Prophets would have considered the occupation better still - but we wouldn't know about that. But it could as well have been a part of history the Prophets simply didn't care about too much and so didn't manipulate events either to avoid the Occupation, or to bring it about.
Of course, there still could be a myriad arcane (to us) reasons why the Prophets would have considered the occupation better still - but we wouldn't know about that. But it could as well have been a part of history the Prophets simply didn't care about too much and so didn't manipulate events either to avoid the Occupation, or to bring it about.
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Consider what is said by Picard, regarding the Bajorans, way back in "Ensign Ro". He says that: "They were architects and artists, builders and philosophers when humans were not yet standing erect."
Given that the Bajoran people didn't advance significantly in over 100,000 years, they were clearly stuck in a dead end, probably due to the d'jarra system and similar other factors. The Cardassian occupation brought that to an end, and possibly will allow the Bajoran civilization to grow and evolve, especially as a member of the Federation and a part of the greater galactic community.
Given that the Bajoran people didn't advance significantly in over 100,000 years, they were clearly stuck in a dead end, probably due to the d'jarra system and similar other factors. The Cardassian occupation brought that to an end, and possibly will allow the Bajoran civilization to grow and evolve, especially as a member of the Federation and a part of the greater galactic community.
Bajor by the end of the series should've been a member of the Federation or the people should've transcend someway mystical.
That's explainable by the paradox of free will. In order to make the choice between good and evil meaningful, he must allow humans to choose evil.
Much like a parent is by no means malevolent for letting go of the bike the first time.
I think the Prophets foresaw it, but did not cause it. They didn't see it as something preventable even, just what happened, is happening and always will happen. An event that must have happened in order for them to encounter the Sisko, that removing the event from history, unravels the victory of the pah wraiths.
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That's assuming there's inherent premium on advancement. What if they were happy at their particular equilibrium? Do you apply that logic to examples in human history to excuse all the cases where a stronger military power enslaved a less technologically advanced power? "It helped them evolve"?
Does that mean we should still be going around to every place in the world they still live like humans did thousands of years ago and forcing them into modernity?
Since the Prophets have no concept of linear time, and exist outside of it, it's debatable whether it would actually be possible for them to "intend" or "direct" anything. For them, the Occupation is part of history - always has been, always will be. There's nothing they can do to change things.
Tell that to Sisko's birth mother.
And I suppose you have a better explanation as to how the Prophets could have planned that *after* they met Sisko for (from his POV) the first time in "Emissary"?
You might try reading Slaughterhouse-Five.
I think an argument can be made that, while the Prophets are non-linear in their own environment, they experience before and after when they interact with corporeal reality, otherwise the events of "The Emissary" makes no sense, and their overall characterization over the course of the series makes no sense.
If they experience everything all at once, they would be like the Tralfamadorians in Slaughterhouse-Five, where they would know past, present, and future. The Tralfamdorians don't really have free will, and already know how the universe will end.
The Prophets aren't like that at all.
Sisko has to explain linear time to them. If they experienced all of time all at once, just like the Tralfamadorians, they would already know why Sisko is there, and what he is about to teach them, and have no ability to be persuaded to make choices (like intervening with the Dominion fleet) or manipulations (Sisko's mother) within the timeline because they would know they've always done it.
Moreover, there's a definite progression as the series goes forward where the Prophets start out as misunderstood "wormhole aliens" that the Bajorans have ascribed religious significance to where the Prophets in the end fully embrace their position within Bajoran society as "gods." The progression is mirrored by Sisko and how he is dismissive of his role as the Emissary to fully accepting it and making choices based around his duty to their will.
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