The GEN bridge looked enough like the one from the show that I just thought it was a refit.
Did the entire bridge module get replaced?
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I go with the idea of a swap out, due to the fact they had to do more than add consoles. They had to build new floors to support the side consoles and the lifting of the command chairs. Though there is roughly a half-year between the end of the show and the TNG portion of Generations.
So I don't see any evidence that would work against either interpretation.
1) How long would it take to re-carpet? Starships don't stop at starbases for 11.7 seconds like Formula One racers - they dwell there for days. There simply is no hurry, and no benefit from hurrying.
2) In your model, the bridge is modular. But clearly nothing else is, because modularity requires this pull-out functionality that can only apply to things on the outer surface of the starship. Why would Starfleet want to make Main Bridge modular but not Main Engineering (or even Auxiliary Control)?
3) If you can modularize, surely it's better to modularize just the consoles and not the whole bridge. Otherwise, you are wasting perfectly good resources in needlessly bulky swaps of things that don't need to be swapped.
Choosing the bridge as your swappable module just appears to represent the worst of all worlds: swapping it achieves too little or too much, only affects elements not particularly critical to the ship's performance and mission, and takes more time than just swapping entire ships or just swapping the one broken console, or even the one broken gel pack inside the console.
Timo Saloniemi
No one has suggested that you are swapping bridge modules over a broken console or gel pack. What has been suggested is that they are swappable when there are design changes, like we see with the "A" and the "D".
Exactly. Swap it out for major changes or upgrades. Easier to build and test it at a Starbase or other facility, then plug it in, do a few more tests and off you go.
I watched part of Generations the other day. I had forgotten about the 2 free standing consoles on the sides. Do you suppose there were always places in the floor and/or walls for those to be attached?
So much easier to tear up the floor and rewire everything while the bridge is still attached to the rest of the ship.
So much easier to tear up the floor and rewire everything while the bridge is still attached to the rest of the ship.
Like Timo has been saying though, some things are easily done in situ.
If there were connection points for consoles in that revision of bridge module, they could just pull up the carpet and pop the consoles in.
Sure they are. But I doubt mapping out new stations and what they do is something a starship crew would due on the fly. It was probably a revision done at Utopia Planetia. They build or refit a bridge module, ship it to whatever starbase the Enterprise had a layover at, swapped it out and had someone ferry the old module back to Mars (or wherever) and update that module.
A new bridge module built and tested for the USS Galaxy, the old Galaxy module is refit to new specs at Mars then shipped to the Enterprise with the updated components already in place. Which is how I would see it happening. YMMV.
I think the whole swappable bridge thing came up when each movie with the Refit had a new bridge set. The weird part is that the turbolift stations kept moving further and further apart- for the new plug in bridge to connect with the existing turbolift network the lower tubes would have to be moved further apart as well (or do a one deck jog over to new position.
Personally I like the idea of a swappable bridge module. You can upgrade your entire command interface system in one fell swoop instead of piecemeal.
I do think the Generations Bridge was not swapped however. It was the same bridge with some new stations added and existing ones upgraded slightly.
The bridges in Trek 4/5/6 were completely different structures- nothing in common with each other.
When they designed Voyager the bridge module was intended to be not only swappable but could eject and act as an escape pod as well. This was supposed to be obvious in it's exterior design but I don't see it.
Personally I like the idea of a swappable bridge module. You can upgrade your entire command interface system in one fell swoop instead of piecemeal.
I do think the Generations Bridge was not swapped however. It was the same bridge with some new stations added and existing ones upgraded slightly.
The bridges in Trek 4/5/6 were completely different structures- nothing in common with each other.
When they designed Voyager the bridge module was intended to be not only swappable but could eject and act as an escape pod as well. This was supposed to be obvious in it's exterior design but I don't see it.
I'm pretty sure they intended the same thing for the Galaxy class if the Technical Manual holds any sway.
Well if it was good enough for the TOS-E, why not later ships?
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcar...l/USS-Enterprise-Officers-Manual_Page_038.jpg
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcar...l/USS-Enterprise-Officers-Manual_Page_038.jpg
I brought up this question myself some time ago. 
To me it seemed obvious that it was an upgrade/refit rather than a module swap. The new consoles have been grafted into the fabric of the existing bridge module perhaps in anticipation of a eighth-year mission change for the Enterprise. It's possible that other changes (switching up the uniforms, etc) could be for the same reason.
To me it seemed obvious that it was an upgrade/refit rather than a module swap. The new consoles have been grafted into the fabric of the existing bridge module perhaps in anticipation of a eighth-year mission change for the Enterprise. It's possible that other changes (switching up the uniforms, etc) could be for the same reason.
It would be a revision designed at Utopia Planitia. Adding the unnecessary step of hauling hardware across half the galaxy is the part that makes bridge modules unattractive, though. The more that can be done in situ, the more efficient. You definitely don't want to haul X tons of inert bridge structure to the point of use if you can simply haul a carpet roll and two consoles.
But to see a problem in this is to misunderstand the basic nature of turbolifts. A turbolift stop is quite comparable to a Science Station console: a freely moveable piece of a jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces are essentially identical (just like in studio reality).
The most natural setup would have a horizontal tube just below bridge level, allowing for efficient shuffling of arriving and departing bridge traffic. The exact points where the lifts moved up from that horizontal shaft could be decided and altered at a moment's notice, on the already very modular bridge. And there's little reason why the deck below should be less modular: the horseshoe shaft on that deck could be shortened and lengthened at will, too, if the maximally long one needed for ST6:TUC were somehow undesirable.
It would only be at the lower decks that the turboshaft network should gain some rigidity (perhaps relating to why the lifts were inoperative "below C deck" in ST2 specifically - the real-world reason of there being no way to get the characters to the bridge without operative lifts notwithstanding). But since most of the sets are modular in reality (that is, "different" locations are just redresses), the piecemeal modularity should be an attractive in-universe feature as well.
Timo Saloniemi
I think it was just the result of Picard waking up one day and just hating everything. 10 mins with a bungee rope and a phaser rifle with some Breen, and poor old Geordi and Data were breaking out the flat packs.
Ahem.
It could go either way, and the intent off camera was it was the same bridge, even to the point that we were supposed to be 'oh that's what I have been looking at on the tiny TV all these year's
So...flatpacks.
It is however totally supported that the bridge is modular as was intended in its design (the model kit alone makes that obvious.) and it's perfectly reasonable that other sections of the ship are also (off the top of my head remembering the D....warp core, sensor palettes, nacelles, impulse engines, phaser arrays, at a pinch the entire shuttle bay and cargo area, the entire saucer section of course, the battle bridge, the secondary shuttle bays, the captains yacht, and life boats.) totally 'hot swappable' for starfleets advanced engineers. Don't forget they got a new warp core (looked identical, bar a new hatch on the intermix chamber) in universe during the series. We saw the main chunk of a navigational deflector removed in First Contact on the E, and Voyager replaced warp coils rather than building or fixing parts in situ. (the Voyager bridge life boat idea is very interesting...I am building her at the moment so will look closely at it)
Modular replacement makes perfect sense for engineering as advanced as the federation, and wouldn't be a waste of resources at all...you can always re use parts on compatible ships (or bodge job them together like the frankenstein fleet) and we know for a fact that starfleet dumps whole ships, pulls the parts off them, and stores the parts in other ships (gambit part 1 and 2, I think)
The overhaul in generations is as likely to be one as the other, because it's not just the side stations (third change to those modules inside the bridge...good thing they have transporters, sod getting those through turbolift doors or doing your back in like the chuckle brothers coming down that rear ramp.) but the implication of the colour changes to the dome, the frame supports, the extra flooring, even Picard's chair, suggest the entire module was changed.
I wonder how Livingston felt about transporter beams. 'hey what's happening...ah I am somewhere new..eep...baldie is carrying in his beaded seat cover....Man I am bored of this same old place' *blows a bubble*
Ahem.
It could go either way, and the intent off camera was it was the same bridge, even to the point that we were supposed to be 'oh that's what I have been looking at on the tiny TV all these year's
So...flatpacks.
It is however totally supported that the bridge is modular as was intended in its design (the model kit alone makes that obvious.) and it's perfectly reasonable that other sections of the ship are also (off the top of my head remembering the D....warp core, sensor palettes, nacelles, impulse engines, phaser arrays, at a pinch the entire shuttle bay and cargo area, the entire saucer section of course, the battle bridge, the secondary shuttle bays, the captains yacht, and life boats.) totally 'hot swappable' for starfleets advanced engineers. Don't forget they got a new warp core (looked identical, bar a new hatch on the intermix chamber) in universe during the series. We saw the main chunk of a navigational deflector removed in First Contact on the E, and Voyager replaced warp coils rather than building or fixing parts in situ. (the Voyager bridge life boat idea is very interesting...I am building her at the moment so will look closely at it)
Modular replacement makes perfect sense for engineering as advanced as the federation, and wouldn't be a waste of resources at all...you can always re use parts on compatible ships (or bodge job them together like the frankenstein fleet) and we know for a fact that starfleet dumps whole ships, pulls the parts off them, and stores the parts in other ships (gambit part 1 and 2, I think)
The overhaul in generations is as likely to be one as the other, because it's not just the side stations (third change to those modules inside the bridge...good thing they have transporters, sod getting those through turbolift doors or doing your back in like the chuckle brothers coming down that rear ramp.) but the implication of the colour changes to the dome, the frame supports, the extra flooring, even Picard's chair, suggest the entire module was changed.
I wonder how Livingston felt about transporter beams. 'hey what's happening...ah I am somewhere new..eep...baldie is carrying in his beaded seat cover....Man I am bored of this same old place' *blows a bubble*
FWIW, I am also popping for most of the changes we see in TNG being the result of modifying the existing Bridge rather than swapping out the section for a near identical version each time.
Compared to installing some prefab CAD-designed consoles and platforms, how much more work must it be to sever all those computer and power connections, air pumps, turboshafts, hatches, ramps, Jefferies tubes and anything else that the command centre needs on a regular basis.
Yes, the docking and swapping of the Bridge module is straightforward, but that's where easy street ends!
Compared to installing some prefab CAD-designed consoles and platforms, how much more work must it be to sever all those computer and power connections, air pumps, turboshafts, hatches, ramps, Jefferies tubes and anything else that the command centre needs on a regular basis.
Yes, the docking and swapping of the Bridge module is straightforward, but that's where easy street ends!
To be fair, they do that lot every time they seperate the saucer.
If they can detach and reattach the saucer in fifteen minutes, and be good to go, I have to believe they could easily do the same thing with a bridge module.
Good point, but the saucer does feature a whopping separation line and a lot of surface area to spread those various connections (and sealing/disconnection technologies) across. The square meterage that the Bridge has to contain all that (don't forget there's 3 turboshafts to seal off) is considerably less.
Look at it from the outside. The bridge module (including the observation lounge) Is one nice neat pop out lozenge. It's why I say building the model is the best way to get to know that ship...I hand painted the aztecking with my father when I was twelve, had the galoob die-cast toy drop on me when I was staring at it, and have spent the last few years gluing and holding together my sons toy version....I have spent a lot of time doing nothing but stare at that ship. (not saying that gives me greater expertise, but providing a humorous grounding....I have literally watched paint dry on the galaxy class, then glued the sodding nacelles to my thumb. She's front heavy...and dents a forehead from 6 inches of acceleration.)
