Did the EMH mess up? (Equinox)

[BruntFCA]

I just finished the two Equinox episodes and in pt 2 when Voyagers EMH beams back to the ship he just deletes the other EMH, while I was watching I didn't think too much about it but afterwards I got to thinking and realized what a stupid move that was. Having another doctor on the ship or even just as a back up when Voyagers EMH leaves would have been really important and could have been a big deal down the line. All they had to do was rewrite his program and he would have been good as new.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Good point. That never occurred to me.

 

[Markira]

Never thought of that, but it would have made a lot of sense.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Perhaps the EMH - our version - was simply exhibiting very humanlike anger and/or desire for vengeance against his 'evil' counterpart. He is a sentient being, after all.

OTOH, perhaps the computer doesn't have the power to keep two EMHes running continuously. It wasn't even made to keep *one* running all the time, let alone two.

 

[AK4186]

Perhaps the EMH - our version - was simply exhibiting very humanlike anger and/or desire for vengeance against his 'evil' counterpart. He is a sentient being, after all.

IIRC, the EMH was still without his ethical subroutines at this point so this seems all the more plausible an explanation.

 

[Tiberius]

Rewriting the program for an EMH could have been very tricky. We never found out the extent of the mods the Equinox crew made to the program, and Tom and Harry found out how hard getting an new EMH to work is.

 

[The Dominion]

What I've always wondered about the episode, is that if they deleted both EMH's ethical subroutines, how they got them back? I mean, they always say they can't back up The Doctor's program, and ethical subroutines sound like they could be tricky to write. And they say they "deleted" them. That doesn't sound good, it sounds like they destroyed them, not just turned them off.

But of course, you could always throw some technobable reasoning out to explain it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Lets assume that all the holograms have ethical subroutines to some degree and most of those ethical subroutines probably tell the hologram to take a step back and don't even think about surgery, but the architecture, maybe 60 percent of what the Doctor had deleted is already persisting in the matrices of all the other holograms on Voyager's buffer.

 

[The Dominion]

But that doesn't stop holoKlingons from trying to tear you a new one even when the safeties are turned off.

And before someone says that their ethical programs are turned off with the safety, that's just dumb. Why would they program both to be activated by the same "switch."

 

[Guy Gardener]

Maybe there's a difference between autonomous holograms who act free standing in the real word in the service industry like the Doctor, compared to the hordes of NPC's bound/slaved to a single operating system... You know Wallpaper in novels.

Besides, ethics would get in the way of the realism of the holonovel character's, so it's understandable that you would need safeties, and if there were safeties, the holocharacters wouldn't need ethics. However the qualities inbred into a fictional placeholder vs. a waiter working in the real world for real people is a horse of another colour.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

OTOH, perhaps the computer doesn't have the power to keep two EMHes running continuously. It wasn't even made to keep *one* running all the time, let alone two.

Yep, I think it is quite explicitly stated early on that the computer can only maintain one hard-light hologram at any given moment.

*Looks at forum title*

Wait what forum am I on again?

Back to Star Trek then, I don't see why one couldn't be powered by the mobile emitter and the other restricted to the holoemitters in sickbay/holodeck like he was in the early series.
Though they'd bitch like crazy about whose turn it was for the emitter this week!

The one upside I could think of to that though is, with two identical doctors, it might make them speed up in the whole "choosing a name" situation, lest things get too confusing!

The only thing that bugged me about the whole thing is that the Doctor just arrived in sickbay and shouted "Delete the Equinox EMH!" and the computer complied.
That seemed worryingly easy. No Recycle Bin on Voyager?

So are we to assume any ranking officer with computer clearance could walk into sickbay at any moment and shout "Computer, delete the Voyager EMH!" and poof, that's it,..gone!?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Antipiracy features.

The copyright holders don't want poor people getting their hands on cheap knock offs.

An odd sentiment considering that there's no money in the Federation.

Possibly a Prime Directive issue?

Imagine you're a dirt farmer under some thugs toe who at most has a hundred meth dealing bikers making sure you hand over half your crops and your daughters whenever they turned up...

But you can turn a hapless doctor from a downed Federation Shuttle into half a billion soldiers which might reverse your dirt farming fortunes completely.

The technology is dangerous but it has to be limited for the sake of every one like we do now with nukes and weaponized anthrax.

I can't imagine why or how Janeway might ever be so unconscionable as to hand over such dangerous and complicated technology to anyone who was not ethically or technically sophisticated enough to make such devices themselves.

Peers vs. Pets.

 

[The_Baroness]

Ever tried to install a program twice? Window's will tell ya to unistall older versions first, or will replace it for ya. Same with EMH's I guess, doubt they could run two copies of the same software.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So what is the EMH's Blue Screen of Death then?

 

[Chuckling]

Antipiracy features.

The copyright holders don't want poor people getting their hands on cheap knock offs.

An odd sentiment considering that there's no money in the Federation.

Possibly a Prime Directive issue?

Imagine you're a dirt farmer under some thugs toe who at most has a hundred meth dealing bikers making sure you hand over half your crops and your daughters whenever they turned up...

But you can turn a hapless doctor from a downed Federation Shuttle into half a billion soldiers which might reverse your dirt farming fortunes completely.

The technology is dangerous but it has to be limited for the sake of every one like we do now with nukes and weaponized anthrax.

I can't imagine why or how Janeway might ever be so unconscionable as to hand over such dangerous and complicated technology to anyone who was not ethically or technically sophisticated enough to make such devices themselves.

Peers vs. Pets.

How does that relate to "Flesh and Blood"?

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Flesh_and_Blood_(episode)


Chuckling

 

[Guy Gardener]

So what is the EMH's Blue Screen of Death then?

Vinegar strokes.

 

[Deks]

They could have done several things differently in Equinox.
they could have kept the Equinox itself and have it accompany Voyager back to the AQ.
The former Equinox crew would be still stripped of rank and work as crewmen on Voyager, while some portion of Voyager's crew would be transferred to the Equinox.
Chakotay could have commanded it as captain.
Kim could have FINALLY gotten a promotion, and the ship would serve Voyager well as a support ship (VERY capable combat-wise, but less powerful in shields and Warp speed).

The possibilities are there.
:-)

 

[Turd Ferguson]

The only thing that bugged me about the whole thing is that the Doctor just arrived in sickbay and shouted "Delete the Equinox EMH!" and the computer complied.
That seemed worryingly easy. No Recycle Bin on Voyager?

So are we to assume any ranking officer with computer clearance could walk into sickbay at any moment and shout "Computer, delete the Voyager EMH!" and poof, that's it,..gone!?

My question is, how did the computer know which EMH to delete? From its point of view, the Equinox EMH might be the Voyager EMH. It had been serving as the Voyager EMH since it arrived on board.

Then, this asshole EMH pops in from the Equinox, also sans ethical subroutines, and barks orders to delete the Equinox EMH. Shouldn't it have deleted the Voyager EMH instead?

 

[The Dominion]

We can only assume it knew not to delete the one who was speaking. Kind of like how it knows EXACTLY when someone wants to go threw a door or not.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well the Equinox's EMH was using the EMH socket in the buffer, and Voyager's EMH was in the visitor/guest socket in the buffer.

Similar to when you post here without signing in...

Can you post here as a "Guest" still?

I doubt it.