Did the Dominion War destabilize the Alpha quadrant?

[Vanyel]

Ok, I put this post here because I'm not really sure if it belongs in the DS9 forum. So if it needs to be moved, please do so.

On to my question:

Once the war was over, Starfleet, the Klingon and Romulan fleets all needed to be rebuilt. The Cardassian Empire either had to be held together by the Federation and possibly her allies or dismantled.

All of that would leave an opening for other 2nd rate powers to make a move on the weakened main powers of the AQ.

There are the Gorn. The Tholians. Even the Borg could be players once they repair/reopen their transwarp corridors.

If the Cardassian Empire is broken up, the Federation - being as they are - would be spearheading the effort to help these worlds get up and running on their own. That would use a lot of resources and a good sized fleet to protect the worlds from other powers and to help keep order.

If, on the other hand, the Federation decides to help maintain the Cardassian Empire (a very unlikely option), that would still require a large occupational fleet.

In any event, Cardassia Prime would need extensive help rebuilding.

All the while the Federation would be rebuilding their fleet and upgrading the planetary defenses of planets that need them, like Beatzed.

This could leave the Federation vulnerable.

Weakened Klingon and Romulan fleets could also have problems holding their empires together.

The events of Nemesis and the destruction of the Tal Shiar could leave the Romulan Empire even more vulnerable.

Not a well constructed post, but one I hope starts some good discussion.

 

[Rek]

The borg did attack during DS9. Although, I don't remember if it was during the war with the Dominion or before. Theres not a episode about it but it was mentioned.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The borg did attack during DS9. Although, I don't remember if it was during the war with the Dominion or before. Theres not a episode about it but it was mentioned.

It actually happened in "First Contact." The Borg launched their second offensive on the Federation (the Battle of Sector 001?) in 2373, roughly the same time as direct hostilities between the Federation and the Dominion began in DS9's fifth season...

 

[Timo]

To be sure, the mention of a "recent" Borg attack in DS9 "In Purgatory's Shadow" was made before stardate 50564 (this date was given in the second part of that two-parter, "By Inferno's Light"), whereas ST:FC only happened on SD 50893, after that mention.

There's nothing to say that the Borg wouldn't have kept on attacking the Federation (and perhaps even DS9 specifically!) on a more or less regular basis between "Descent" and ST:FC, even though the camera didn't show it to us. And of course Sisko's definition of "recent" could stretch all the way back to "Best of Both Worlds", because he mentions the Borg incident as a reason for why Starfleet is temporarily spread thin - and in "The Wounded" the same claim was made about the effects of Wolf 359. Quite possibly Shelby's estimate of full recovery within a year was overtly optimistic, and "BoBW" still keeps haunting Starfleet by the time of "In Purgatory's Shadow"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Ira Steven Behr said that Sisko mentioning the "recent Borg attack" was meant to be a referance to First Contact.

Anyway, in answer to the original question, no the Dominion war did not destablize the Alpha Quadrant. When it ended, the Dominion ran back to the Gamma Quadrant, Cardassia was left in ruins and the Federation, Klingons and Romulans lived happily ever after.

Well, maybe not the Romulans. They had a supernova waiting in the relatively near future that would spell certain doom.

But anyway, that's all that we need to know. If you want details about shifting political alliances, "second-rate powers" rising to the occasion to make a name for themselves, or the Borg returning!!! then go read the novels. They got all that plus a Federation that's on its last leg. I think there's someone out there who still like those books...

 

[GalaxyClass1701]

Yes The Federation, Klingon, ANd Romulans fleets were left in shambles.

I know it is not cannon but if you want an idea of what it is like read some of the novels.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't usually say things like this, but I think Pocket Books needs to be reminded that Star Trek is supposed to be about optimism and space exploration.

Long-term analysis of the political ramifications of an intergalactic war and subequent events on a scale so grand that the Federation has been left on its knees and to the mercy of the Borg!!! and a coalition of Romulans, Gorns, and Tholians (oh my!) is not what got me interested in Star Trek.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I don't usually say things like this, but I think Pocket Books needs to be reminded that Star Trek is supposed to be about optimism and space exploration.

They've actually already returned to space exploration in both the books featuring the Voyager and the Titan. The Titan in particular has already made first contact with several new races.

Long-term analysis of the political ramifications of an intergalactic war and subequent events on a scale so grand that the Federation has been left on its knees and to the mercy of the Borg!!! and a coalition of Romulans, Gorns, and Tholians (oh my!) is not what got me interested in Star Trek.

The events in the Destiny series was merely to shake up the status quo in the 24th-Century by taking the Federation down a peg and introducing a new rival for the top power in the Quadrant. If anything, the novels have returned things back to the way they were in TOS in which the Federation had serious competition (in TOS, it was the Federation and the Klingons--now it's the Federation and the Typhon Pact).

 

[captcalhoun]

don't worry, the Borg finally got her in 2381. she's dead. assimilated and then blown to smithereens.

 

[captcalhoun]

PAD was forced to put in the Lady Q scene by Paramount/CBS licensing department in case Janeway comes back canonically. as far as he and the editor were concerned Janeway was dead and atomised.

 

[Vanyel]

What or who is "Pad?"

 

[Vanyel]

okay, I didn't know he had the middle name "Allen." I just looked him up.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

No! After What You Leave Behind the Alpha Quadrant entered a new era of peace and shiny optimism. This is Star Trek, after all .

 

[StarryEyed]

The AQ is definitely destabilized after the Dominion War. The three major powers are weakened and that just might lead to some adventuring on the part of the Sheliak, Gorn, Tholians, Orions and possibly others. More significantly though, what to do about the Cardassians and the Breen. Most people seem to forget that the The Klingons and Romulans were at war with Cardassia and Breen too. They are going to have a say in regards to the disposition of those powers. They may be carved up into thirds the way Germany and Korea were split in half.

 

[Vanyel]

The AQ is definitely destabilized after the Dominion War. The three major powers are weakened and that just might lead to some adventuring on the part of the Sheliak, Gorn, Tholians, Orions and possibly others. More significantly though, what to do about the Cardassians and the Breen. Most people seem to forget that the The Klingons and Romulans were at war with Cardassia and Breen too. They are going to have a say in regards to the disposition of those powers. They may be carved up into thirds the way Germany and Korea were split in half.

What to do with the Cardassians is one thing I brought up. They, the Allies, would have to decide to either keep the Cardassian Empire together, or grant independence to the conquered worlds. I would imagine Cardassian colonies would remain under the control of Cardassia Prime, unless they wanted to be independent. A new government would need to be formed.

The Breen being Johnny-come-latelies to the war might get off lighter. A dismantling of the bulk of their fleet, a new government. I don't think it was ever said if the Breen had an Empire or if they were just their home world and colonies. The Romulans, I believe, had the most direct contact with the Breen before the war.

The Federation might even find itself at odds with it Allies. The Romulans could want harsher demands on the Breen, due to the implied conflicts between the two. The Klingons had a history of military engagements with Cardassia before the war, so they might also want the Cardassians severely punished. The Federation could find itself trying to keep another war from breaking out.

 

[The Wormhole]

The events in the Destiny series was merely to shake up the status quo in the 24th-Century by taking the Federation down a peg and introducing a new rival for the top power in the Quadrant. If anything, the novels have returned things back to the way they were in TOS in which the Federation had serious competition (in TOS, it was the Federation and the Klingons--now it's the Federation and the Typhon Pact).

Part of the appeal of the 24th century was that the Federation was the dominant power. There were rivals that were on a mostly equal footing (Romulans, Cardassians) and some enemies that posed a serious threat (Borg, Dominion) but the Federation always came out on top. Star trek is about moving forward, and while that issue itself is debateable when used in arguments for or against prequels, I think it can be applied to not undoing the narrative progress which has already developed. Don't press the metaphorical reset button, in other words.

I could go on. My issues with Trek novels stem back to 2004 with that cruddy "A Time To..." series which began the serialized nature linking all Trek books, regardless of if they're TOS, TNG, DS9, VGR, ENT, or any of the novel-only series together and set us on the road to where novels currently are. Characters introduced in those books have gone on to be major players in other series, some have even had their own novels, like the Federation president in those books.

But, this is not the Trek Lit. forum, and I have derailed this thread enough. I conclude by trying to get back on topic and re-iterating my belief that after the Dominion War, all was good for the Federation and its allies. For some reason, relations broke down between the Federation and the Romulans, since they were enemies again in Nemesis, but even then by the end they were on the road to peace. And what could be a better representation of Trek's ideals then the quadrant's three major powers united in peace blazing forward together towards a better future?

But then Abrams had to undo everything with XI by destroying Romulus. Ruining a truly redeeming quality of Nemesis and raping our childhoods.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The events in the Destiny series was merely to shake up the status quo in the 24th-Century by taking the Federation down a peg and introducing a new rival for the top power in the Quadrant. If anything, the novels have returned things back to the way they were in TOS in which the Federation had serious competition (in TOS, it was the Federation and the Klingons--now it's the Federation and the Typhon Pact).

Part of the appeal of the 24th century was that the Federation was the dominant power. There were rivals that were on a mostly equal footing (Romulans, Cardassians) and some enemies that posed a serious threat (Borg, Dominion) but the Federation always came out on top. Star trek is about moving forward, and while that issue itself is debateable when used in arguments for or against prequels, I think it can be applied to not undoing the narrative progress which has already developed. Don't press the metaphorical reset button, in other words.

I thought one of the least interesting aspects about the 24th-Century was how the Federation dominated everything and always came out on top. In TOS, there was something of a cold war aspect between the Federation and the Klingons, and a number of classic episodes--including "The Trouble With Tribbles"--came as a result of that.

Long before the Destiny novels, I believed it would be much more interesting if there was once again another interstellar government that provided some serious competition for the Federation in the Alpha Quadrant--especially after the Dominion War--so I really kind of got my wish in the novels with the Typhon Pact. I'm really looking forward to see how things move forward from this point and what kind of relationship the Federation could have with this new rival power...

 

[ProtoAvatar]

The events in the Destiny series was merely to shake up the status quo in the 24th-Century by taking the Federation down a peg and introducing a new rival for the top power in the Quadrant. If anything, the novels have returned things back to the way they were in TOS in which the Federation had serious competition (in TOS, it was the Federation and the Klingons--now it's the Federation and the Typhon Pact).

Part of the appeal of the 24th century was that the Federation was the dominant power. There were rivals that were on a mostly equal footing (Romulans, Cardassians) and some enemies that posed a serious threat (Borg, Dominion) but the Federation always came out on top. Star trek is about moving forward, and while that issue itself is debateable when used in arguments for or against prequels, I think it can be applied to not undoing the narrative progress which has already developed. Don't press the metaphorical reset button, in other words.

I thought one of the least interesting aspects about the 24th-Century was how the Federation dominated everything and always came out on top. In TOS, there was something of a cold war aspect between the Federation and the Klingons, and a number of classic episodes--including "The Trouble With Tribbles"--came as a result of that.

Long before the Destiny novels, I believed it would be much more interesting if there was once again another interstellar government that provided some serious competition for the Federation in the Alpha Quadrant--especially after the Dominion War--so I really kind of got my wish in the novels with the Typhon Pact. I'm really looking forward to see how things move forward from this point and what kind of relationship the Federation could have with this new rival power...

You may have gotten more than you bargained for.

'Destiny', made the borg kill 64 BILLION people, brought the federation to its knees and left it there (the federation had nothing to do with the events that, in the end, allowed its survival).
Beyond the material devastation, think of the trauma the federation suffered: Pearl Harbour or 9/11 times a thousand.

If future novels in this continuity want to be even remotely plausible, you won't be seeing much TOS-like optimism and thirst for exploration or TNG-like self assuredness in them. What you will see is a strong isolationist movement and major social changes in the federation.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Part of the appeal of the 24th century was that the Federation was the dominant power. There were rivals that were on a mostly equal footing (Romulans, Cardassians) and some enemies that posed a serious threat (Borg, Dominion) but the Federation always came out on top. Star trek is about moving forward, and while that issue itself is debateable when used in arguments for or against prequels, I think it can be applied to not undoing the narrative progress which has already developed. Don't press the metaphorical reset button, in other words.

I thought one of the least interesting aspects about the 24th-Century was how the Federation dominated everything and always came out on top. In TOS, there was something of a cold war aspect between the Federation and the Klingons, and a number of classic episodes--including "The Trouble With Tribbles"--came as a result of that.

Long before the Destiny novels, I believed it would be much more interesting if there was once again another interstellar government that provided some serious competition for the Federation in the Alpha Quadrant--especially after the Dominion War--so I really kind of got my wish in the novels with the Typhon Pact. I'm really looking forward to see how things move forward from this point and what kind of relationship the Federation could have with this new rival power...

You may have gotten more than you bargained for.

'Destiny', made the borg kill 64 BILLION people, brought the federation to its knees and left it there (the federation had nothing to do with the events that, in the end, allowed its survival).
Beyond the material devastation, think of the trauma the federation suffered: Pearl Harbour or 9/11 times a thousand.

If future novels in this continuity want to be even remotely plausible, you won't be seeing much TOS-like optimism and thirst for exploration or TNG-like self assuredness in them. What you will see is a strong isolationist movement and major social changes in the federation.

While I don't think the events in Destiny are going to be swept under the rug and forgotten--indeed, I expect the consequences of the final Borg offensive to be remembered forever in Federation society--I actually don't think we'll see the books be quite that bleak and dreary. There probably will be references to reconstruction for quite some time, but I don't believe the books will focus too heavily on that. I think it will be more of a case of it being a new world order in the Quadrant and the Federation will be left behind if it gets too complacent...

 

[ProtoAvatar]

I thought one of the least interesting aspects about the 24th-Century was how the Federation dominated everything and always came out on top. In TOS, there was something of a cold war aspect between the Federation and the Klingons, and a number of classic episodes--including "The Trouble With Tribbles"--came as a result of that.

Long before the Destiny novels, I believed it would be much more interesting if there was once again another interstellar government that provided some serious competition for the Federation in the Alpha Quadrant--especially after the Dominion War--so I really kind of got my wish in the novels with the Typhon Pact. I'm really looking forward to see how things move forward from this point and what kind of relationship the Federation could have with this new rival power...

You may have gotten more than you bargained for.

'Destiny', made the borg kill 64 BILLION people, brought the federation to its knees and left it there (the federation had nothing to do with the events that, in the end, allowed its survival).
Beyond the material devastation, think of the trauma the federation suffered: Pearl Harbour or 9/11 times a thousand.

If future novels in this continuity want to be even remotely plausible, you won't be seeing much TOS-like optimism and thirst for exploration or TNG-like self assuredness in them. What you will see is a strong isolationist movement and major social changes in the federation.

While I don't think the events in Destiny are going to be swept under the rug and forgotten--indeed, I expect the consequences of the final Borg offensive to be remembered forever in Federation society--I actually don't think we'll see the books be quite that bleak and dreary. There probably will be references to reconstruction for quite some time, but I don't believe the books will focus too heavily on that. I think it will be more of a case of it being a new world order in the Quadrant and the Federation will be left behind if it gets too complacent...

One problem - that wouldn't even be close to realistic.
The book line utterly trashed the federation - materially and spiritually (in its selfconfidence, etc); it it assumes such a traumatic event have no effect on the federation psyche - beyond some memorials and refugee camps - then it's not even trying to be plausible.

New order inside the quadrant - fine. What about inside the federation, who suffered the greatest losses?