Did the Borg make any aggressive moves toward the Romulans after "the neutral zone" (TNG)?

[at Quark's]

In TNG's The Neutral zone, the Enterprise is dispatched to investigate several outposts having gone silent along the Neutral Zone border. The crew finds that these have disappeared "as though some great force just scooped it off the face of the planet." They then encounter a Romulan ship whose captain admits that pretty much the same has happened to outposts on the Romulan side of the border.

A year later, in Q who, it is strongly suggested that the Borg were responsible for that. So, it would seem that in that first encounter, the Borg indiscriminately committed aggressive acts in both Romulan and Federation territories (even if only for purposes of reconaissance).

After that time, though, it almost seems like the Borg prioritized acquisition of the Federation over that of the Romulan Empire. Of course, that could simply be because of the almost exclusive Federation perspective we get in the shows, and the secretiveness of the Romulan Empire.

I'm still curious, though. Did the Romulans experience their own versions of Best of Both Worlds or First Contact? Is there evidence in canon Trek for any subsequent Borg aggression towards the Romulans?

 

[TheSubCommander]

My original take was that the Federation was targeted first, because the Borg had prior contact with humans (IE Regeneration, First Contact, The Hansons in Dark Frontier, Q who). However, the Narada from Star Trek 2009 was supposed to be Borg technology the Romulans captured, so it's possible the Romulans had a Borg invasion of their own.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I would assume that the Federation would be a higher priority target, both because of a higher level of aggression demonstrated by its citizens toward the Borg - boarding the cube in Q Who, for example - and also because of the greater diversity represented by the Federation. Assimilate Romulus, you basically get Romulan tech and knowledge. Assimilate the melting pot called Earth, you get much of the tech and knowledge of hundreds of worlds and peoples at once.

But given that, and then given the lackluster effort the Borg seemed to put into even *that* - one single cube, and then one more single cube with a time sphere, neither of which got the job done. It wouldn't surprise me if incursions into Romulan space may have been limited to those scooping runs, and perhaps some scout cubes like Hugh was on. If the Romulans captured one of the latter, that by itself could explain the tech that was supposed to be on the Narada.

 

[Timo]

Given all we learned in VOY, I'd argue neither the UFP nor the RSE are "targets" at this point of history yet. All the Borg do is periodically sample their cultures and technologies with single, expendable Cubes, recording their progress and updating their calculations on how many millennia it will take yet for the victims to "ripen" sufficiently for an all-out assimilation.

Both the cultures would be highly susceptible to this sort of probing: prick them, and not only do they bleed, they also get innovative. Their defenses and counteroffenses can then be harvested, in waiting for the day when the innovation ceases and all that remains is the bringing of Collective bliss to the suffering individualistic masses.

The one difference between UFP and RSE response would be that individual Romulan victims would not stop to assess the situation like Picard did in "Q Who?", but would blast the probing Cube to bits at once. This might slow down the rate of intel acquisition a bit, because the Borg would need to probe with superior forces, calling for a bit of pre-intel which in itself is a chore. But the difference wouldn't be noticeable on strategic level.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

However, the Narada from Star Trek 2009 was supposed to be Borg technology the Romulans captured,

Only according to the Countdown comic, which is not canon. Orci said so.

 

[bbjeg]

The Borg don't deal with crazy. After assimilating their first Romulan, they were done with them.

 

[at Quark's]

Only according to the Countdown comic, which is not canon. Orci said so.

Ah, right. But I've got to admit that his ship's style does remind me of the Borg in some way; at the least it's not like any conventional Romulan design I've ever seen (or even like any Alpha Quadrant design I can recall, for that matter) . Not that that proves anything, of course.

 

[Timo]

It's only the second time we see a spaceborne industrial platform in Star Trek, after the other warp-capable mining rig in ENT "Demons"/"Terra Prime". While those two are totally dissimilar, they both are justified in not resembling any combat or exploration or transport starships we have seen!

The big problem with Countdown is that the movie features no moment after the loss of Romulus where Nero could get his ship boosted by Borg tech - and surely he would not be entitled to being boosted by Borg tech before this Armageddon... Doesn't mean the Romulans couldn't have Borg tech in secret labs, of course. But it would probably first see use in combat vessels rather than mining rigs.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS Triumphant]

But it would probably first see use in combat vessels rather than mining rigs.

Perhaps it was a superweapon but they were telling the public it was a mining platform to keep them from questioning the necessity of it in the budget?

 

[Timo]

...I rather enjoyed seeing working stiffs for a change, operating hardware that is impressive without being military.

Would captured Borg tech have civilian dividends? It might be nice to have self-repairing starships, but you'd always have the nagging fear that the ship might switch sides when meeting a Borg vessel. Nanoprobes might have their medical uses, and the Feds already had some before meeting with the Borg (unless their nanites actually were something captured from the Borg without full disclosure). Drone shields and tools might be nice for various professions. The Collective technology itself, vinculum and all, might be useful in computing, communications, espionage, whatnot. I could well see the Romulans and all sorts of adventurers engaging in trophy hunting, not just Janeway, and profiting from Borg tech.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS Triumphant]

It might be nice to have self-repairing starships, but you'd always have the nagging fear that the ship might switch sides when meeting a Borg vessel. Nanoprobes might have their medical uses, and the Feds already had some before meeting with the Borg (unless their nanites actually were something captured from the Borg without full disclosure). Drone shields and tools might be nice for various professions. The Collective technology itself, vinculum and all, might be useful in computing, communications, espionage, whatnot. I could well see the Romulans and all sorts of adventurers engaging in trophy hunting, not just Janeway, and profiting from Borg tech.

Regarding the ship changing sides, I guess that depends on whether they would be dumb enough to use very slightly modified Borg nanites, or smart enough to just use the desired behaviors of the nanites as inspiration to build/modify their own technology. I would think that it would be possible to use 24th century IT security methods (firewalls, encryption, whatever else they have by then) for Starfleet/Romulan/etc nanites to allow them to repair the hull without making the ship any more vulnerable to being controlled by an enemy (Borg or otherwise) than just having the ship's main computers as connected and important as they are already makes them. Possibly even less, since one could probably program the nanites to recognize aberrant behavior in their neighbors (or in the ship's main computers) and move to correct it or to disable them before they can do any damage.

Another thing Borg "collectiveness" (without giving up individuality altogether - so something like the Cooperative that we saw in that Voyager episode) seems to me like it might be good for is mental defense: if the Federation was facing an enemy with mental abilities like Betazoids, the Vorta, or even Vulcans, being connected to a network of others who could reinforce your mental defenses with their willpower, or recognize changes being made in your mind and work to correct them right away, seems like it could be a great advantage.

 

[at Quark's]

Regarding the ship changing sides, I guess that depends on whether they would be dumb enough to use very slightly modified Borg nanites, or smart enough to just use the desired behaviors of the nanites as inspiration to build/modify their own technology. I would think that it would be possible to use 24th century IT security methods (firewalls, encryption, whatever else they have by then) for Starfleet/Romulan/etc nanites to allow them to repair the hull without making the ship any more vulnerable to being controlled by an enemy (Borg or otherwise) than just having the ship's main computers as connected and important as they are already makes them. Possibly even less, since one could probably program the nanites to recognize aberrant behavior in their neighbors (or in the ship's main computers) and move to correct it or to disable them before they can do any damage.

That may be not as simple as it sounds. Nanobots probably interact, and it's possible that several properties and behaviors emerge from the 'nanobot swarm' even though these behaviors and properties may not have been programmed originally in the nanobots themselves. I think this is even more true if the nanobots would need a certain measure of autonomy to do their stuff (which I think is likely). I've read theories that the Borg became like they are today without ever intending to, due to just that kind of unanticipated side effects.

 

[USS Triumphant]

This subject is actually peripherally related to my field of expertise, and the problem you point out mainly depends on two things: the degree of autonomy for the nanobots, and how they're manufactured. If the nanobots have very little intelligence of their own, and mostly hand off "thinking" to one of the ship's computers, that gives you a good central place to shut them down if they begin misbehaving. And you would not want your nanobots to build more nanobots - despite the temptation to allow your army of bots to multiply themselves, or replace themselves as needed, construction of nanobots and quality control has to be done centrally, or you risk the nanobots evolving modifications to their hardware or software that cause them to malfunction and/or put them out of your control. Most evolutions would be dead-ends that would result in non-useful nanobots - as long as the onboard intelligence is limited, we're almost certainly not talking about emergent awareness or anything complex like that. But even nanobots that are simply damaged in a way that causes them to keep taking in raw materials and building more like themselves is a known real world apocalypse scenario called https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo Grey Goo - eventually, *everything* gets turned into useless nanobots.

 

[UnknownSample]

Here is what was originally planned: The attacks on Romulan planets (scaled down for "The Neutral Zone") were to have been caused by one Borg ship, and not only that, but a small Borg scout ship... which destroys not just a few outposts, but the entire Romulan Empire. This may be common knowledge by now, and it's a little OT, so I won't get into it further. There isn't all that much to tell. By the way, Next Gen 's "Time Squared" was supposed to continue the Borg story.

 

[USS Triumphant]

If that's true, I'm certainly glad they pulled back on amping the Borg up *that* much. They would have struggled with making an enemy that powerful something that the Federation could realistically face and survive. Basically, the only way I can see that they could have done it would have been to have *every* other power we're familiar with short of Q and the Organians join together and pull out all of the stops to stop the Borg - and after that, once the Borg were defeated and everyone else is one big happy family, where would the conflict come from?

 

[OtherGene]

Ah, right. But I've got to admit that his ship's style does remind me of the Borg in some way; at the least it's not like any conventional Romulan design I've ever seen (or even like any Alpha Quadrant design I can recall, for that matter) . Not that that proves anything, of course.

Aesthetically I agree and it would go some way to explain why the Narada looks like the way it does. I don't know why a mining vessel would need all that spikey crap on it.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Aesthetically I agree and it would go some way to explain why the Narada looks like the way it does. I don't know why a mining vessel would need all that spikey crap on it.

To keep various debris in an asteroid belt away from the main hull by blocking it with the spikes or catching it in the corners between the spikes?

For an ordinary ship, the navigational deflectors should do that, but perhaps a mining ship needs additional precautions aside from force fields because they are sometimes pulling materials inside the ship that may break apart, or working with materials with mechanical tools (like external armatures?), so the whole operation is taking place inside the shields...

 

[Timo]

I visualize the tentacles just wrapping around whatever is being mined, and then also perhaps doing some active shredding and ripping to get to the juicy innards. Not necessarily mechanically, but by placing their digging ray thingamabobs and ore extraction field doodads literally all around the target, in close contact.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

Here is what was originally planned: The attacks on Romulan planets (scaled down for "The Neutral Zone") were to have been caused by one Borg ship, and not only that, but a small Borg scout ship... which destroys not just a few outposts, but the entire Romulan Empire. This may be common knowledge by now, and it's a little OT, so I won't get into it further. There isn't all that much to tell. By the way, Next Gen 's "Time Squared" was supposed to continue the Borg story.

As I recall, the idea as of "The Neutral Zone" was the Borg were part of why the Romulans were absent for 50 years, so they were mucking around over there and not in Federation space. It was only when they gobbled up the Neutral Zone outposts that the Federation was to get their first inkling that they existed. The story was going to be that the LAST Romulan ship managed to destroy the Borg ship that had destroyed their Empire, and Picard would spend time over an arc trying to learn how the Romulans did it in order to save the Federation, with Q showing up now and then in a "Devil and Daniel Webster" fashion. Wish I could recall in which interview this was covered.

 

[UnknownSample]

As I recall, the idea as of "The Neutral Zone" was the Borg were part of why the Romulans were absent for 50 years, so they were mucking around over there and not in Federation space. It was only when they gobbled up the Neutral Zone outposts that the Federation was to get their first inkling that they existed. The story was going to be that the LAST Romulan ship managed to destroy the Borg ship that had destroyed their Empire, and Picard would spend time over an arc trying to learn how the Romulans did it in order to save the Federation, with Q showing up now and then in a "Devil and Daniel Webster" fashion. Wish I could recall in which interview this was covered.

I think it was Cinefantastique magazine, either a general Trek issue, or "Zooming to a Third Season". I wish I kn ew how Time Squared figured into it.