Did Spock tell Kirk anything at all about Discovery/Burnham/etc.?
- Thread starter TheMadCloner
- Start date
This is the same Spock who wouldn't even give his younger Kelvin-verse timeline self a break and tell him everything he needs to know to make life easier. I know if I were in a similar position, I would tell my younger self everything to ensure at least one version of me doesn't have to endure the same painful moments in my life that I did.
It's also nonsense from the in-universe perspective of keeping the thing actually secret.
As far as the world knows, NCC-1031 was a humdrum flying lab that never achieved anything at all. She was then lost in a nondescript event somewhere out there, probably one of her experiments blowing up or something. There was a plaque nailed to the wall of SF HQ as usual, nice enough a ceremony, and the survivors of the commemorative veterans' club still gather to drink on the anniversary of the loss in the TOS movie era. Why call attention to any of that by declaring it classified?
Timo Saloniemi
As far as the world knows, NCC-1031 was a humdrum flying lab that never achieved anything at all. She was then lost in a nondescript event somewhere out there, probably one of her experiments blowing up or something. There was a plaque nailed to the wall of SF HQ as usual, nice enough a ceremony, and the survivors of the commemorative veterans' club still gather to drink on the anniversary of the loss in the TOS movie era. Why call attention to any of that by declaring it classified?
Timo Saloniemi
This is the same Starfleet that had its only death penalty being a ban from Talos IV, no doubt massively increasing curiosity about this planet, likely the exact opposite of the ban's intention.
Well, the opposite option would have been to declare a quarantine, also a trouble magnet, and unenforceable because any asset used for enforcing the quarantine would have been co-opted by the Talosians.
At least the deal gives legitimacy to what Starfleet would have to do anyway: ruthlessly gun down anybody coming from the direction of Talos, without as much as hailing them first.
Timo Saloniemi
At least the deal gives legitimacy to what Starfleet would have to do anyway: ruthlessly gun down anybody coming from the direction of Talos, without as much as hailing them first.
Timo Saloniemi
Spock's not pre-disposed to discuss issues of a personal nature. For that, he is sorry.
Doomcock's lame attempt at a sarcastic response: "See? That makes everything alright! He's sorry.... "
Doomcock's lame attempt at a sarcastic response: "See? That makes everything alright! He's sorry.... "
We didn't see this, but I can imagine it happened:
Kirk: Spock, the Babel Conference is incredibly important to the Federation, and it is our vital mission to do everything we can to safely deliver these important people to that conference.
Spock: Oh? Then maybe now is a good time to tell you who my father is. Well, on second thought, it's probably not important. I'll tell you later.
Spock: Oh? Then maybe now is a good time to tell you who my father is. Well, on second thought, it's probably not important. I'll tell you later.
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Except for the Season 1 finale where Burnham seems to give a keynote speech to the Academy in honor of ending the Klingon war and the disovery crew all get medals. Mind you, given how not crowded space is AND how little contact the ship had with starfleet after Pike boarded, it's not hard to have a cover story where Discovery was lost on it's way to Vulcan.
"Hey Jim, did I ever tell you about the experimental Starfleet ship that travelled through a network of magical mushrooms and disappeared into the future, never to be seen again after a battle with Section 31? My human sister was on it and she was amazing! It was around the time the Federation almost got conquered by the Klingons who occupied a lot of our space, but I was on the Enterprise and off surveying rocks and missed this existential threat to Earth.
And he was a good friend."
And he was a good friend."
I don't know. If the writers don't want a particular fact being known by a person who mind melded with Spock, they can just have Spock say something like "I can hide a piece of knowledge in a part of my mind where no one else could access it, not even in a mind meld."
I mean, the writers can give Vulcans certain mind abilities or abilities to control their thoughts that are needed as the plot requires, and without necessarily violating consistency in ways that have bothered us before -- e.g., consider that the idea of the Katra wasn't introduced as a thing until it was needed for the plots of the movies.
So it isn't a given that Kirk or McCoy has that knowledge from mind melds/Katras. And if there is ever a reason for us to specifically be told they DON'T, then the writers can do so with a quick line or two explaining how the knowledge could stay hidden from them.
They don't need to. We already have evidence of this from Lt. Valeris resisting Spock's mind meld. And I feel like her mental discipline would pale next to his.
Not everything has to be said. Which is probably also Spock's policy.
Where does this "melds are complete sharings of mind contents" thing come from anyway? When it happens in "Sarek", it's the result of a debilitating illness, and nevertheless we never get any proof Picard would have gotten every single bit of Sarek or vice versa.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
The significance of the spore drive ship is not mentioned even in that speech (which is pretty inane as speeches go, but nothing wrong with characters giving odd speeches as such, and Burnham is known for her non-sequiturs). It is likely to be a bit like Samantha Carter receiving a medal for "outstanding work on radar technology" when she actually saved the Earth from aliens a dozen times over while traipsing through Stargates: somebody needs to be decorated, and it might just as well be the folks who actually won, but the story just plain can't be told.
Now that's a story unto itself. How come Pike ever even met the Discovery, and why? He was on his way to the Hiawatha, a long way away, basically in Klingon territory. His ship broke down. And his best bet was to fly all the way to Earth and there stumble upon our heroes? (No, he wasn't searching for Starfleet's one and only ship capable of traveling to all the distant Red Signs - he didn't know about the spore drive in "New Eden".) Is that again "space not crowded, and it really is a straight run through utter emptiness from Klingon space to this location - and, additionally, there are no repair facilities in any other direction?
Timo Saloniemi
Pike was the Captain that was going to be waiting for the Discovery on Vulcan. He just didn't make it to Vulcan because the Enterprise's systems got fried.
I don't understand how so many Star Trek fans haven't figured that out.
I don't understand how so many Star Trek fans haven't figured that out.
And this is established where?
It was never explicitly established, but the end of Will You Take My Hand and the beginning of Brother provide pretty strong implication that Pike is the Captain they were headed to pick up.
First of all, the signals that kicked off Pike's new mission appeared two days before the Discovery's crew was honored with the medal ceremony we see at the end of WYTMH? and they were dispatched to Vulcan.
Second, Pike already had his 'introduction' to Discovery's crew planned and ready for public display, and had already been briefed on at least some of what they had gone through during the war, even if he didn't know the full story about exactly how they lost their previous Captain.
