Did Spock consider himself more Vulacan or Human?

[Neutral Zone]

Throughout TOS Spock and Bones often bantered on Spock being Vulcan which Spock always appeared to be proud of.

When I watched 'The Enemy Within' earlier this evening I noticed Spock say that he continually had conlict with his 'human half and his alien half'.

So did he deep down consider himself more human and that infact his other was not really Vulcan but merely alien?

 

[T'Girl]

I think after his mindmeld with V'Ger, Spock came to realize than he wasn't half Vulcan/half Human, but rather he was "Spock." He was a whole person and had always been one.

But prior to V'Ger ...

Spock definitely favored his "Vulcan side" during TOS. Yesteryear shows that as a child he made a deliberate decision to focus on Vulcan culture, philosophy and lifestyle. To the point that aspects of general Human culture occasionally caused him actual confusion.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Spock was alien. To the Vulcans, he was too human. To the humans, he was Vulcan. The Romulan commander asked him which he considered himself, and he answered "Vulcan." Of course, all his answers were suspect in that episode.

You can clearly see Nimoy calling on the Jewish experience in the diaspora as the outsider in his portrayal of Spock.

 

[Christopher]

When I watched 'The Enemy Within' earlier this evening I noticed Spock say that he continually had conlict with his 'human half and his alien half'.

So did he deep down consider himself more human and that infact his other was not really Vulcan but merely alien?

You have to keep in mind that "The Enemy Within" was one of the earliest episodes written. The term "Vulcan" hadn't even been used yet in the show. The previous episode in production sequence, "Mudd's Women," had Mudd refer to Spock as "part-Vulcanian," and the next episode, "The Man Trap," was the first mention of the "planet Vulcan," but we didn't hear "Vulcan" used as the name of Spock's species until the episode after that, "The Naked Time," and Spock didn't call himself a Vulcan until two episodes later in "Balance of Terror."

So Spock referring to his non-human half as "alien" in "The Enemy Within" doesn't mean he actually considered Vulcans alien to himself. It just meant that the episode was written so early that the terminology hadn't been solidified yet.

 

[MarsWeeps]

I think after his mindmeld with V'Ger, Spock came to realize than he wasn't half Vulcan/half Human, but rather he was "Spock." He was a whole person and had always been one.

Yes, it seemed to me that after all these years, Spock finally accepted his human half. While he was lying in bed and laughing, he realized that "logic and knowledge are not enough."

He realized he needed human emotion and feeling to evolve, like V'Ger.

But...it seems as if that was all thrown away and he went back to his old Vulcan self in STII.

 

[Christopher]

Yes, it seemed to me that after all these years, Spock finally accepted his human half. While he was lying in bed and laughing, he realized that "logic and knowledge are not enough."

He realized he needed human emotion and feeling to evolve, like V'Ger.

But...it seems as if that was all thrown away and he went back to his old Vulcan self in STII.

Oh, not at all. The Spock of TWOK was very much a natural outgrowth of his V'Ger epiphany in TMP. He was serene, at peace with himself. His emotions were not overtly displayed, but he had no hesitation to engage in acts of sentiment like giving birthday presents or saying things like "I have been, and always shall be, your friend." Yes, he was still Vulcan, still logical and disciplined by choice, but he no longer saw his emotional side as something he had to fight against or reject.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Oh, not at all. The Spock of TWOK was very much a natural outgrowth of his V'Ger epiphany in TMP. He was serene, at peace with himself. His emotions were not overtly displayed, but he had no hesitation to engage in acts of sentiment like giving birthday presents or saying things like "I have been, and always shall be, your friend." Yes, he was still Vulcan, still logical and disciplined by choice, but he no longer saw his emotional side as something he had to fight against or reject.

I didn't see it that way. For example, when Kirk tells him there is a possible emergency at Regula 1 and they go back and forth about who will take command:

KIRK: It may be nothing, ...garbled communications. You take the ship.
SPOCK: Jim, you proceed from a false assumption. I am a Vulcan. I have no ego to bruise.
KIRK: You're about to remind me that logic alone dictates your actions.
SPOCK: I would not remind you of that which you know so well.

It just seems to me that Spock was back to his old "I am a Vulcan" self. I guess I expected to see a more emotional Spock, like him laughing in "The Cage" or maybe even smiling while he cracks jokes at McCoy.

 

[xortex]

He could have been lying there and went back in his quarters and cried. He did definately retain the superiority complex, as when T'Pau asked him. 'Are thee Vulcan or art thee Human?' so distastefully. He could be a Romulan traitor for all we know.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't see it that way. For example, when Kirk tells him there is a possible emergency at Regula 1 and they go back and forth about who will take command:

KIRK: It may be nothing, ...garbled communications. You take the ship.
SPOCK: Jim, you proceed from a false assumption. I am a Vulcan. I have no ego to bruise.
KIRK: You're about to remind me that logic alone dictates your actions.
SPOCK: I would not remind you of that which you know so well.

It just seems to me that Spock was back to his old "I am a Vulcan" self. I guess I expected to see a more emotional Spock, like him laughing in "The Cage" or maybe even smiling while he cracks jokes at McCoy.

Yes, he was still a Vulcan. But he was a Vulcan who was at peace with his own emotions, who accepted them as part of himself even if he didn't openly express them like humans do. Just because he finally made peace with who he was, that doesn't mean he'd abandon everything he'd been.

And whatever the words in the script may have been, the way Leonard Nimoy has played Spock from TWOK onward has been a lot more expressive and laid-back than he was in most of TOS or in TMP before the V'Ger meld. It's all there in the delivery.

 

[Mr Silver]

By TUC, Spock was definitely more accepting of his Human side. In the movie, he clearly expresses emotion more than once, including blatant anger at Valeris' deception. By the time of "Unification", he seems indifferent to anything Human about himself and simply replies "fascinating" to Data when he brings up the fact that Spock used a Human expression.

In ST09, Spock has pretty much accepted both parts of his lineage, and he is just as inclined to call upon his Humanity as his logic.

 

[Python Trek]

I didn't see it that way. For example, when Kirk tells him there is a possible emergency at Regula 1 and they go back and forth about who will take command:

KIRK: It may be nothing, ...garbled communications. You take the ship.
SPOCK: Jim, you proceed from a false assumption. I am a Vulcan. I have no ego to bruise.
KIRK: You're about to remind me that logic alone dictates your actions.
SPOCK: I would not remind you of that which you know so well.

It just seems to me that Spock was back to his old "I am a Vulcan" self. I guess I expected to see a more emotional Spock, like him laughing in "The Cage" or maybe even smiling while he cracks jokes at McCoy.

Yes, he was still a Vulcan. But he was a Vulcan who was at peace with his own emotions, who accepted them as part of himself even if he didn't openly express them like humans do. Just because he finally made peace with who he was, that doesn't mean he'd abandon everything he'd been.

And whatever the words in the script may have been, the way Leonard Nimoy has played Spock from TWOK onward has been a lot more expressive and laid-back than he was in most of TOS or in TMP before the V'Ger meld. It's all there in the delivery.

I almost never agree with you, Christopher, but I'm 100 % with you on this one. Well said, sir!

 

[FordSVT]

Spock has a very clear personal evolution between his younger days on the Enterprise to his later years as Ambassador and Unificationist. He was at peace with his lineage by the 24th century, as much human as Vulcan, though perhaps from a cultural standpoint Vulcan would always be his true home.

I also wonder about the effect of being involved in the Romulan unification movement had on his psyche. While he had obviously begun to come to grips with his emotional, human side long before that time, spending time on Romulus, surrounded by very outwardly emotional beings nearly identical to himself physically, must have had an influence on him as well I would think. He often said Vulcans could learn something from Romulans and vice versa, perhaps the time for pure logic has past, perhaps Vulcans have moved beyond their self-destructive infancy and would no longer be virtual slaves to their emotions. The Romulans seem to have managed OK, at least they didn't annihilate themselves. Same for people.

 

[Kamdan]

I suggest watching a special feature on the DVD and Blu-ray sets called "Reflections on Spock," which Leonard Nimoy addresses most of these issues. Watching it makes me think about how they screwed it up in the reboot.

 

[Captain Robert April]

As far as during TOS goes....

COMMANDER: A Vulcan among humans. Living, working with them. I would think the situation would be intolerable to you.

SPOCK: I am half Vulcan. My mother is a human.

COMMANDER: To whom is your allegiance then? Do you call yourself Terran or Vulcan?

SPOCK: Vulcan.

 

[CmndrSela318]

Read my signature. That'll tell you where I stand on this issue. <---I thought the laughing Romulan was the most appropriate laughing emote for this thread.

I think my signature was one of the times he, in his own Spock way, acknowledged his human half. The other was towards the beginning of Unification Part 2. He said to Picard something to the effect that he had this ability to see beyond pure logic. His father considered it a weakness but he felt it was a strength. But I also think he would've preferred to have 2 full-blooded Vulcan parents.
In Star Trek 5, there's a scene in the Observation Lounge with Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Sybok where Kirk asked "What is this?" Spock replies "I believe we are witnessing my birth. At the end of the birth scene a young Sarek says "So human." If Spock could remember that then it probably hurt his Vulcan pride. Despite what Sarek or Spock or any other Vulcan might tell you, I think they do have emotions but are trained from a very young age to suppress and hide their emotions and to look at and deal with situations logically.

 

[xortex]

The way T'pau said it, Human is a dirty word.

 

[scotpens]

As far as during TOS goes....

COMMANDER: A Vulcan among humans. Living, working with them. I would think the situation would be intolerable to you.

SPOCK: I am half Vulcan. My mother is a human.

COMMANDER: To whom is your allegiance then? Do you call yourself Terran or Vulcan?

SPOCK: Vulcan.

And on those rare occasions when Spock displayed emotion or made a decision based on his feelings, he’d always find some “logical” rationalization (“The Galileo Seven,” “Amok Time”). In “The Naked Time,” he admits his feelings only when affected by the inhibition-loosening disease.

SPOCK: My mother. I could never tell her I loved her.
KIRK: We've got four minutes, maybe five.
SPOCK: An Earth woman, living on a planet where love, emotion, is bad taste.
KIRK: We've got to risk a full-power start. The engines were shut off. No time to regenerate them. Do you hear me? We've got to risk a full-power start!
SPOCK: I respected my father, our customs. I was ashamed of my Earth blood. (Kirk slaps him) Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed.

(That’s still one of my favorite TOS scenes — a great dramatic moment for both Shatner and Nimoy.)

 

[USSManhattan]

I always got the feeling that Spock saw himself as more Vulcan than human. I recall a few instances where he expressed (albeit with sarcasm) horror at the thought of becoming more human. He seemed to view his human self as thing to be mastered, suppressed and kept under the surface.

 

[CmndrSela318]

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home. In that scene towards the beginning of the movie when the computer was asking him 2 or 3 questions at once on as many screens. The last question the computer asked was "How do you feel?" It asked about 3 or 4 times before he finally replied he didn't understand. Then later in the movie when Uhura tells Kirk that she's located Chekov. Spock, maybe not in so many words, tells Kirk to go rescue Chekov. Kirk ask him if that was the logic thing to do. Spock replies "No. But it is the human thing to do." The way he says that, it sounds like he's refound and accepted his human half. He doesn't sound embarrased or disgusted by the word "human". But in that scene in Star Trek 5 I mentioned in my last post where we get to see his birth. He sounds like he's back to his "I wish I were a full-blooded Vulcan" attitude.

 

[Christopher]

In Star Trek 5, there's a scene in the Observation Lounge with Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Sybok where Kirk asked "What is this?" Spock replies "I believe we are witnessing my birth. At the end of the birth scene a young Sarek says "So human." If Spock could remember that then it probably hurt his Vulcan pride.

You're forgetting what Spock said later in the scene:

Sybok! You are my brother, but you do not know me. I am not the outcast boy you left behind those many years ago. Since that time I found myself and my place and I know who I am.

Sybok thought that showing Spock that scene would remind him of his deepest pain, because the Spock that Sybok had known in the past had been ashamed of his human half. But by the time of ST V, Spock had overcome that shame and doubt about his identity and made peace with who he was, so Sybok's attempt to brainwash him through his pain was a failure.