Did Sisko commit a war crime?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by jonds91, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He was an interesting character, but something about him...he reminds me of one of those nerdy smart alec kids in school that thinks they are superior. The kind that give you a savage urge inside to just pound their face in, bit you have to resist.
     
  2. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    I was one of those nerdy smart alec kids. But I was an Eddington fan I rooted for him all the way in For the Uniform.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Have to?
     
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  4. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    yeah, because sometimes they want you to. Then they'd win.
     
  5. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Doesn't mean it was the wrong call though in the face of the situation.
     
  6. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The question that remains is the definition of "freedom". Freedom and, say, anarchy are two different issues best not conflated.

    Sisko, right from the get-go ("The Maquis", season 2), openly said he would do what it takes to stop the Maquis. Almost, he didn't exactly kill the newly minted renegade Hudson - but at the time of that incident, killing would have been a clear war crime for Sisko to do and the situation hadn't ballooned. (Maybe Sisko thought later on that had he taken action worse events may not have taken place, I've not seen all the episodes yet...)

    The Eddington arc is a great one, but Eddington still went around poisoning planets and kept upping the ante. Sisko clearly had to respond and already tried everything else. Hudson wasn't saying he would actually commit more crimes, the most I remember right now is that Hudson was starting a new life (since the old one with the Federation was ending) so Sisko had nothing. Maybe attempted use of a WMD, but Sisko opted to let his friend go - but still did prevent a war. But even Sisko lamented that maybe the events only delayed the future, and he was proven correct. Sisko's consistency throughout is present and Eddington did across a line big-time.

    But this is DS9 - like TOS, it shows events in a way that can have us cheering or jeering the same people and still love the show. (I'm not an Eddington fan, the Maquis may have some great tailors but as freedom fighters, they just don't convince and it didn't help by "Voyager" being quick to ditch the Maquis subplot in favor of recreating Mr Rogers Neighborod in space. :( Though I am a fan of Voyager, I know it also needed the conflict DS9 handled so perfectly.

    Now Blake's 7, there's a bunch of freedom fighters... :)
     
  7. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    I never had an issue with Voyager and the Maquis.

    -Most of them had a federation or even Starfleet background and so would have reintegrated fairly easily.

    -They are 70,000 LYers away after all so any differences they had would be subsumed by mutual self interest.

    -There was conflict at least until the end of the first season. With continuing rumbling and acknowledging the existence of the Maquis problem until the sixth or seventh season.
     
  8. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Maquis in "The Maquis" two parter and in TNG's "Preemptive Strike" were naive pansies and in way over their head. They were lucky to get Ro and Hudson. That one guy in the two parter was like Mr. Rogers trying to fight a guerilla war.
     
  9. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah the Maquis in "The Maquis" were pathetically naive and rather weak.

    Eddington obviously got them into fighting shape.

    Else they wouldn't have "turned the tide" as Dax said.
     
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Hello boys and girls. Can you say 'fire photon torpedoes'? I knew ya could."
     
  11. Mattadd

    Mattadd Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    What Sisko did was almost certainly illegal. Whether it qualifies as a war crime or not would depend on whether this would classify as an international conflict. It doesn't seem to, and I would classify it as an insurrection. I'm assuming the planet Sisko poisoned was not one already ceded to the Cardassians in the treaty.

    The government usually has wide leeway to put down insurrections, though normally they would have to declare an emergency or invoke a martial law act. So since Sisko acted on his own, what he did was very likely criminal.

    I would have loved for the show to follow this up with very serious consequences. Seeing Sisko charged and put in prison for most of the rest of the series would have been fascinating. Bringing on a new captain and seeing how they would change things, and maybe Sisko coming back toward the end, not in Starfleet anymore but moving to Bajor and fully embracing his role as Emissary.
     
  12. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That would've been a crazy twist. I think Sisko's role as Emissary was to be a captain. The prophets wanted to put one of their own in SF. Maybe it was their plan for the Dominion to be stopped before they take over Bajor or Earth or something.
     
  13. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Maquis were mostly civilians while Eddington was a Starfleet officer formerly of one of the most important posts in the galaxy. Yeah, I can see that.

    Weak? Compared to who, the Dominion? They're terrorists, not the Fourth Reich.

    And still, people learn. If they kept with the Maquis arc instead of creating the Dominion, I imagine they'd descend deeper into violence and cunning. Or I hope they would; the show did a bad job presenting them as threats.

    I really dislike the Les Miz episode -- it remains one of my most eye-rolling. Marks against that I didn't mention page 1 are the confrontation between Sisko and Eddington being so hammy and the quip at the end between Sisko and Dax is maybe my biggest eye-roll of the series. Writers talk about how filling in a 20+ episode season was mind-wracking; I don't think this one would have made it if they did 10 or 15 episodes a season.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  14. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, the Maquis were actively in revolt against the Cardassian presence and, to some extent, the Federation. Otherwise, their were referred to in the series as colonists.
     
  15. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I thought it was really dumb that in this episode they started saying "Maquis Planets." They're no longer Federation colonies in the DMZ. Now they are Maquis planets...
     
  16. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not if Sisko had the leeway to do what he did under his standing orders and rules of engagement.

    Binding the hands of your field commander too tightly is a recipe for lack of results.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Bet your ass they are. They're the ones who wanted to break away, so effectively they're no longer Federation citizens. They can't have it both ways.

    And I still take issue with the concept of "civilian" Maquis. Like I said, groups like this don't take rejection well. If any colonists refused to join them, that wouldn't matter - all of them would be expected to take up arms for "the cause", like it or not.

    And once they do that, they ain't civilians no more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  18. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    If the Maquis had succeeded they would have formed their own breakaway state in the DMZ.

    If the Cardassians had been sufficiently thrashed they would have claimed more cardassian territory and probably took anything they could get from the Feds before declaring independence.
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They sealed their fate. They pissed the Cardassians off so much that Cardassia joined the Dominion, and therefore all of Cardassia's problems became the Dominion's problems.

    So in a very real sense, it's the Maquis' own damn fault they got wiped out by the Jem'Hadar. They brought it all on themselves.
     
  20. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All the Federation planets became part of the Maquis? When was this established?